[TheKingfish]

The above is probably pretty standard fare (adding up household power loads), but thought I’d treat it like a macro and sample some opinion prior to purchase. Having done some research, I am considering three Honda models: EM4000/5000/6500S. Other models as applicable. I like Honda for their engineered presence in this product line and the quietness. Price is a lesser factor.

I plan to use the unit for residential power outages, feeding my adapted circuit box w/interlock. My primary power-surge draws would be: refrigerator, furnace and sump pump (1/3 hp). I’m open to shutting down circuits as needed, but generally want above-average operational robustness. A/C use is not anticipated in my MI location. I have two Chevy Volts that charge after midnight (240V/20A), but don’t know that I’d do so given their gasoline-run capability. Generator fuel would be natural gas.

The starting-wattage capacity for those units align with their model numbers. Running wattage has been secondary in my thinking. Please share your thoughts on a best choice.
Thank you,
TheKingfish

 

[chandler48]

At 6000 watts, you will be "camping out" with your power consumption. You will have to degrade the number of circuits to the bare minimum in order to have sufficient power to run the necessities. By no means will 6000 watts run the entire house. If you are OK with that, then pick and choose the circuits to shut down, start the generator, lock out the main and enjoy.

 

[Bud9051]

Your title says A Portable Generator, but the list you would like to power says fixed whole house. If money is no object the whole house option is nice, especially if your area suffers frequent outages and some long term ones.

You mentioned your "adapted circuit box w/interlock" although the interlock process seems simple the power companies were able to sniff out even a ground connection and here in Maine anything other than an approved interlock comes with a substantial fine. But the worst part was when they detected a connection they just called it in and left. Some areas suffered a week or more additional down time and neighbors were not happy.

Think bigger and be sure your interlock is acceptable, IMO.

Bud

 

[brric]

6000 watts is more than enough to handle the OP’s listed loads, especially if it is a Honda. My cheap 5000 watt generac easily powers the furnace, refrigerator and 240 volt submersible well pump. Diversity also comes into play.

 

[Calson]

I would take into consideration the minimum gallons of fuel per minute under no load and under full load as well as how to stage the backup fuel tank. For the smaller Honda portable generators they sell a special hose so an additional fuel tank can be piggybacked on the first tank so the generator can run longer before you need to let it cool down and refill the main gas tank.
These are in the price range of a small Generac standby generator and the Generac can run on natural gas or propane. Never run out of fuel and no worries about stale gas.

 

[joed]

The 3 listed loads would run fine on the 4000 watt unit assuming the furnace is gs and just needs power for the controls and blower.

 

[CodeMatters]

I run my fridge, freezer, furnace, a few lights and random small
loads off my 120V 1600W inverter type Generac. No problems.
Basically all I don't use is the stove (Never use dryer anyways).
I'd tell you how I hook up the generator, but then there'd be the
usual alarmist whining.......

 

[SeniorSitizen]

First, be aware of generators being sold, - that were returns - after previous power outages. These are sometimes advertised with attractive discounts, as new and may not have a warranty because the item was never registered and has no paper trail. I suggest being persistent in this matter with other returnable equipment as well. A NG powered unit may not be as problematic as a gasoline.
EDIT EDIT: look for a very small sign in the sales area that may read - all sales are final - or - -as is no warranty - - or other select wording.











Now to answer your question. From experience, after spending another considerable amount to make it run after 2 hours of operation because of all the named crap above, our portable honda EU2000i will provide power for 2 refrigerators, a deep freeze, our 2 computers and lights. What else would a SeniorSitizen need for a short period?:biggrin2: We have gas heat also with a back-up furnace that requires no 120V power.

 

[CaptTom]

I can only offer my own experience. I have a 7,500 Watt generator and it's more than enough to run my whole house. I could easily get by with 6,000W. I have an oil boiler, two sump pumps and a refrigerator running all the time, plus all the lights, computers, TVs, etc. I think nothing of running other electric appliances, although I would only run something like a dryer if I shut everything else down.

I am of the opinion that generators are seriously over-sold. I get that most people are stupid, and an electrician wants to make things simple for the customer. But if you think you can handle managing loads and doing some very simple arithmetic, you'll be fine.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I know from experience that any generator in the 5 > 7Kva range
will be enough for most houses unless you have a heavy A / C load.

 

[chandler48]

I guess my opinions were based on MY experiences with a total electric house. We were limited to the "necessities" with our 6500 watt Kubota. Necessities included well pump (hog), comfort items like TV, periphery, router, sparse lighting, microwave, and (at the time of Hurricane Ivan) MIL oxygen generator (big hog).

 

[seharper]

Since you're not smothered by cost concerns, I'd like to make the case for looking into "the new stuff", i.e. battery storage setups like the Tesla PowerWall (or saner cost alternatives). Either as a replacement for the generator, or as an augment that'll let you run much smaller generator occasionally just to top up batteries, yet enjoy those key services 24x7.

The problem is, all your keystone loads are very intermittent loads. You've got a furnace that wants to run 5 minutes every 20 minutes, a fridge that wants to run 4 minutes every 30, and a sump pump that (in the icy winter) wants to run 1 minute in 60. You need big amps to start those motors, but after 2 seconds the load settles down to nothing that warrants that big a generator. And then the load is gone and the generator is spinning (not so fast with an inverter generator) waiting for the next startup.

For instance a refrigerator typically takes 1KWH per day. That averages out to 42 watts. Spinning a 5kw generator for 42 watts doesn't make much sense.

You could say "Oh hey, I'll just manually start the generator every 2 hours", but then you're up at 2AM and 4AM to get the furnace running so your house is bearable and to keep the sump pump from overflowing.

A generator has always been a poor fit for this application, but historically there's been no other option. New world.

Battery systems are just right for low-net-KWH intermittent 24x7 loads like this. It just boils down to sizing. You don't even have to size it for worst-case, because for a long one you can just augment it with a generator - that is, have the generator recharge the batteries at a time of your choosing. The generator can be much smaller than -- well shoot, you own two Chevy Volts, I'm preaching to the choir here

As far as using the gen to top up the Chevy Volt, I concur, waste of time given that the Volt works fine in Prius Mode (never plugging in). I evaluated it for my lifestyle where plug-ins would be rare, mostly because my company had 4 plug-in spots and probably 50 employees with plug-ins), and my house has 30A/120V service.

Speaking of that, when I hear people say "oh you need 6kw for a house", I snicker. My 1000sf cottage is only provisioned with 30A @ 120V no kidding. The two adjacent cottages share the other half of my MWBC!! We have common-trip; it's tripped twice in 15 years. They have no clue. Neither did I until last year (I walk my talk when I say "Tenants shouldn't DIY electrical"). It's unbelievable how little power we use.

Do an energy audit and see for yourself. Plug a Kill-a-Watt into your sump pump. It's harder to wire a Kill-a-Watt into a furnace, but worth it for the measurements IMO. Generally furnace loads are the air handler.

 

[seharper]

I guess my opinions were based on MY experiences with a total electric house. We were limited to the "necessities" with our 6500 watt Kubota. Necessities included well pump (hog), comfort items like TV, periphery, router, sparse lighting, microwave, and (at the time of Hurricane Ivan) MIL oxygen generator (big hog).

I'm the exact opposite. An all-gas range/oven, a gas water heater, and an Empire style wall furnace. Cook, bathe and be cozy warm in an outage.

Mind you, we're not surrounded by hydro and cheap paid-for nukes, so there's no financial incentive to go electric.

 

[J. V.]

I'm the exact opposite. An all-gas range/oven, a gas water heater, and an Empire style wall furnace. Cook, bathe and be cozy warm in an outage.

Mind you, we're not surrounded by hydro and cheap paid-for nukes, so there's no financial incentive to go electric.

In our area, we wish we had natural gas. Our area is all electric. I have even considered going with propane. But fuel was the issue.
If fuel prices were to remain at this level and we know they will not, my stove, water heater and heating system would be on propane.

Just something about the warmth gas can provide. Better cook tops as well.

 

[TheKingfish]

To all, thank you very much for your thoughtful advice – very helpful. Where I had anticipated a forum lean toward the heavier-duty product, I received a far more-balanced response. Consistent with that ‘lighter’ feedback, I have a teaser product for you to consider -- the 2017-introduced Honda EU3000i Handi.

It’s 20% quieter than the big boys, but I like it for three other reasons. It has a much lighter weight (232 vs. 78 lb) and a small footprint, such that it could be readily transported to my up-north home as needed without a pick-up truck (I don’t own one). The one potential operational negative is the lack of an electric start for Ms. Kingfish. What do you think?

And lastly, apart from the conventional -- a big shoutout to seharper for her/his quintessential Innovation Plan. An excellent point about ‘new’ technology supplanting old. If I’m laying out up to $2500 for an ‘old tech’ generator, it’s worth my while to think about parsing out that sum among components that constitute a more forward looking whole. I am intrigued by the prospect of having a Powerwall clone and that smaller generator to augment same. I need to do more application research of course but, if you have additional words of wisdom in regard to those operational pieces, I’m all ears.
Thank you,
TheKingfish


PS - All gas here BTW, including a new tankless w/h that is inoperable during an outage.

 

[brric]

I believe that unit only provides 120 volts, not sure, just guessing.

 

[Oso954]

It is 120V only and the running watts are 2600.

 

[Old Thomas]

An electric car is a complex load that usually takes an inverter generator with a pure sine wave.

 

[seharper]

PS - All gas here BTW, including a new tankless w/h that is inoperable during an outage.

I checked the electrical specs on gas tankless. They're actually not bad at all. I think you could get your shower done with one of those rinky-dink multi-charger deals that has car jumper cables, USB chargers and a 120V inverter on it. My sweetie has one and that's my plan.

 

[TheKingfish]

No, I’m not inclined to charge the EVs (240V/20A) during an outage. That said, what’s the general consensus on the Honda EU3000i Handi? Is it too small to be safe/convenient? I’m willing to shut and be mindful of the circuits within reason.
Thanks,
TheKingfish