Hi I'm Bob from SC. I am doing a shower remodel and about to install my shower pan.Some of you seem to know a lot about it and I have some questions. In one post Cerametec mentioned a liquid memrane using the "divot method". I am not totally sure what that is. I am planning on using a portland cement and sand mix to pour my pan and use redgard liquid membrane over it. any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Shower pan liner
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1,105 Posts
you need to install a flexible pvc shower liner on the sub floor and then the concrete goes into the shower pan and tile on top of that....in the old days you would use a sheet of lead, but since it toxic no more lead...
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Downhill left out a couple of steps but that method is not what you're talking about anyway. I can't be sure without more info. It sounds as if your substrate is concrete, not a suspended wood subfloor.
How about you start over and give details starting with how your house is built. Joists subfloor etc.
Jaz
How about you start over and give details starting with how your house is built. Joists subfloor etc.
Jaz
shower pan liner
My house is built on a slab. I framed the shower and put up durock. I layed felt paper on the floor and wire mesh. I intend to poor the pan with 80 lbs of portland cement mixed with 160 lbs of sand (pre-slope and pan all in one). I then intend to paint the walls and floor (including outside edge of drain with several coats of redgard, then tile over everything.
My house is built on a slab. I framed the shower and put up durock. I layed felt paper on the floor and wire mesh. I intend to poor the pan with 80 lbs of portland cement mixed with 160 lbs of sand (pre-slope and pan all in one). I then intend to paint the walls and floor (including outside edge of drain with several coats of redgard, then tile over everything.
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1,105 Posts
all this new and easy crap wont give the life of doing it the right way..but its your house..I dont see that redguard holding up for 30 or 40 years, the first time one of the cement joints opens up and a crack forms, you will be ripping it out and doing it over..my opinion...pvc liner has been around for as long as pvc pipe with a proven track record, how long has this redguard system been around?
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1,105 Posts
in a shower or just on a normal floor?when the seams in all the corners shift and tear through the micro layer of the painted on sealer and you get water coming out the bottom of your shower, it will be fun todo it over..new technology is not always better, its another gimmick to sell homeowners, at there expense down the line...
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rbannan1,
I don't know of a method that tells you to install felt paper and lath on a slab floor. Definitely not the paper. 80 lb. Portland to 160 lb. of sand is too rich and will be more difficult to work with. A good shower floor mix is 1:4, but it's always measured by volume, not weight, since we don't keep "no skinkin scales" :wink2: on the truck, but we do have shovels. Volume vs weight may be close however.
There's nothing wrong with this method, (liquid membrane vs. sheet shower pan between pre-slope and deck mud), just be sure to follow directions if a mesh is required at the inside corners. Your method might even be better if the pre-slope is omitted in the other method as is often the case. We often see showers built with a pvc shower pan, then the genius nails/screws backerboard to the inside and top of the curb.....there goes the waterproofing.
I believe the surface membrane method is superior to some of the old methods. I like the Kerdi methods, but I won't get off track now.
As most tile pros know, liquid membranes have been around for many years (I would say at least 35 years), and the reason they were developed is the failure of the old method in some cases. Mold and mildew in showers is the main reason for their existence, and the world is better off. There are many brands, Redgard and Hydroban being the two most popular.
Jaz
I don't know of a method that tells you to install felt paper and lath on a slab floor. Definitely not the paper. 80 lb. Portland to 160 lb. of sand is too rich and will be more difficult to work with. A good shower floor mix is 1:4, but it's always measured by volume, not weight, since we don't keep "no skinkin scales" :wink2: on the truck, but we do have shovels. Volume vs weight may be close however.
There's nothing wrong with this method, (liquid membrane vs. sheet shower pan between pre-slope and deck mud), just be sure to follow directions if a mesh is required at the inside corners. Your method might even be better if the pre-slope is omitted in the other method as is often the case. We often see showers built with a pvc shower pan, then the genius nails/screws backerboard to the inside and top of the curb.....there goes the waterproofing.
I believe the surface membrane method is superior to some of the old methods. I like the Kerdi methods, but I won't get off track now.
As most tile pros know, liquid membranes have been around for many years (I would say at least 35 years), and the reason they were developed is the failure of the old method in some cases. Mold and mildew in showers is the main reason for their existence, and the world is better off. There are many brands, Redgard and Hydroban being the two most popular.
Jaz
For good directions on building a surface membrain shower
go to Latacrete---then 'Hydroban showers'----good videos--simple instructions.
I have built several Hydroban showers---including handicap access showers using Hydroban---and following thier instructions.
I do build the traditional lined pans---but the Hydroban pans over a slab are actually a better choice---simpler and no chance of a saturated pan that can happen with an improperly installed liner--
go to Latacrete---then 'Hydroban showers'----good videos--simple instructions.
I have built several Hydroban showers---including handicap access showers using Hydroban---and following thier instructions.
I do build the traditional lined pans---but the Hydroban pans over a slab are actually a better choice---simpler and no chance of a saturated pan that can happen with an improperly installed liner--
pan liner
Thanks for your help. I went to their website and followed their instructions. completed the installation today. I will keep myself busy with the rest of the remodel for another week or so, then apply the waterproofing and tile.
Thanks for your help. I went to their website and followed their instructions. completed the installation today. I will keep myself busy with the rest of the remodel for another week or so, then apply the waterproofing and tile.
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