[xtal_01]

A few weeks ago I asked about shop sheeting. I was given the advice that made me rethink the project.


Sooooo .... with some luck I have a better plan. Still not perfect but better. I still have a number of details I need help with.


Overview .... I have a 3500 sq ft monolithic poured pad ... thickened edge with a 24" x 24" grid of rebar throughout the pad (52 x 64 plus a small entry way kicked out). I know this was a mistake ... I got talked into it by three "experts" (concrete contractor, excavator and framer) who were building my house at the time. Unfortunately it is in and I must use it.


One problem is it has cracks and I know it is still moving. Because it has rebar, it has not displaced but I ground all the cracks out two years ago .. patched them ... the patches have all popped out.


I am planning on putting one row of split face block down. This should keep the sill out of the water. I will drill holes every 6 ft or so and epoxy threaded rod into them. This will hold the mud sill onto the blocks.



I had planned on putting down the blocks with mortar but with the pad shifting, I think I will just end up with cracks in joints all over (been there, done that even with reinforcing between layers). So I am now thinking I should use Sika urethane glue. Three only force is straight down. Really the glue is more of a sealant than anything. I called the factory and they said it would be OK.


I am planning to build a standard building ... 2 x 6 construction ... 16 ft high walls .... 7/16 OSB sheeting ... tyvek.


First problem .... how to end sheeting at bottom. I drew a quick sketch (attached) of three ways. The first way runs the sheeting down over both sills ... this would be the strongest but the OSB is exposed under the edge of the Hardie (Hardie hands over by min 1"). Second way leave the mud sill a bit wider ... let the sheeting sit on it. Now as strong but pressure treat sill only exposed ... plus easier to put up since I can let the sheet sit on the sill while putting it up. Third, could run the sheet only to the wall sill (not the mud sill) ... then use a strip of pressure treat to pull in the house wrap tot he mud sill and pop out the bottom plank.


Now we get to the window detail .... to save money, I want to use "standard" windows. This unfortunately means I have to deal with an integrated J channel ("stock" Lowe's windows are $240 ... any change and the price jumps to over $400 ... times 12 windows).


I have two drawings ... the first shows the problem I am having with figuring out the casing. The left side it shows 1 x ??? casing (3/4" thick) ... J channel is exposed. The next shows 5/4 x ??? (1" think) trim ... just at the edge of the J channel. Next, 5/4 x ??? with 3/4" strips of pressure treated plywood behind it. The problem here is the Hardie siding hits the plywood rather than the trim. The last shows 5/4 x ??? trim with 3/4" plywood under it and also 3/4" thick strips on each stud (on top of the sheeting and wrap) popping out the Hardie siding.


The last idea (3/4" strips of plywood) under the trim and siding would give the drainage plane you guys talked about (think Neil talked about it). It will add about $500 to the project but still lets me use the cheaper windows (standard windows $2800 vs custom $4800).


Attached is one final drawing ... if I strap everything to pop out the trim and siding, I have no idea how to trim the bottom of the window. I drew it as flat casing ... just because I can go with Hardie trim. I would like to use a sill that directs water away but I don't think I can do this with Hardie.

WOW ... lots there .... I am hoping you guys can check me on all this and give me some direction.


Thanks ..... Mike




View attachment test_compressed.pdf

View attachment WALL_BASE_001.pdf

View attachment window_casing_001.pdf

View attachment window_casing_002.pdf

 

[Nealtw]

Others can help you with the block work or maybe you should ask a question in masonry.
We line up the sheeting with the outside of the foundation. of you put some nails between the sill and the foundation left sticking out 1" you can set the sheeting on the nails and that will keep the edge of the sheeting away from the concrete just a bit.

You can keep critters and weeds out by adding blueskin with a primers. just cover an inch of concrete and up on the wall.

 

[xtal_01]

Here are a few pictures of the pad ... insulating the sides and putting in a perimeter drain.

 

[Nealtw]

Here are a few pictures of the pad ... insulating the sides and putting in a perimeter drain.
View attachment 593209

View attachment 593211

View attachment 593213

I want to talk you out of the block walls, wood structure is a lot more forgiving than blocks and we can protect the bottom of the wood structure from what have you.


With blueskin and a metal flashing to protect the bottom of the wall

 

[huesmann]

I want to talk you out of the block walls, wood structure is a lot more forgiving than blocks and we can protect the bottom of the wood structure from what have you.

To be clear, it sounds like the OP just wants to put down one row of block—not entire walls of block.

 

[xtal_01]

Yes, I was talking just one row of block.


This did two things ... got the mud sill off the plate and also got my Haridie 6" off the dirt (as my pad is just above grade). It also let the mud sill hand over the block so I had an air gap behind the Hardie.


On the inside, it also gave some protection to the sill. The pad is flat ... no slope ... I was a bit worried that when I pull the RV into the garage in winter, the snow will melt off and I will have a bit of a flood that will kill the walls and sill (though it is PT).



I can easily be talked out of block (this was just a fix for not having a frost wall that sits above the floor) ... the blue stuff looks great but what do you do with the bottom 6" before you start the Hardie?

 

[Old Thomas]

If the slab has cracks it makes me think of two things:
Was there adequate prep and compaction of the base?
Were control joints placed for shrinkage?

 

[xtal_01]

I think there was a lot of things done wrong.


First and most obvious it should not have been a slab.


Funny, there are 4 control joints cut in each direction ... and not one has a crack! So maybe the joints were not deep enough?


I have caulked all of them now.


The area is very wet ... the bottom of a small valley with a river on one side.


About 24" of top soil was take off and it was back filled. They used the excavator to compact for the most part if I remember.


I know part of the problem is time. I had planned on building the shop soon after the house ... well that is true but he house took 7 years to build. The pad was poured at the same time as the house to save money (excavator and cement contractor were on site).


So this slab has seen 7 years of freeze / thaw



Also, there was minimal insulation and no perimeter drains. I have now dug up the edge ... insulated it and put in drains.


Once the shop is up, it will be heated ... even if just above freezing in the bays I am not using (so coolant and paint won't free .. saves me winterizing the RV a few times in the snow).


I am hoping with the edge insulated .... the drains in ... and no more freeze / thaw cycles ... it may settle down a bit.


Mike

 

[Nealtw]

Yes, I was talking just one row of block.


This did two things ... got the mud sill off the plate and also got my Haridie 6" off the dirt (as my pad is just above grade). It also let the mud sill hand over the block so I had an air gap behind the Hardie.


On the inside, it also gave some protection to the sill. The pad is flat ... no slope ... I was a bit worried that when I pull the RV into the garage in winter, the snow will melt off and I will have a bit of a flood that will kill the walls and sill (though it is PT).



I can easily be talked out of block (this was just a fix for not having a frost wall that sits above the floor) ... the blue stuff looks great but what do you do with the bottom 6" before you start the Hardie?

You would still have to water proof the outside of the block if you did that.
You would put the blueskin as high as the back fill would be or a little higher and then you cover that with galvanized steel Then you can start the siding at different height around the building.
Something you can think about.


See what he does with the wall and door area You van do the same effect with blueskin and flashing.