[rokosz]

I've had a Progress (8604) 60w trans powering a under cabinet Progress 16 bulb ea.3w fixture.
48w wasn't enough so I intend to install another progress, identical fixture and daisy chain into 32 bulbs for 96w.

Presuming dimming if I don't upgrade the 60w trans, I got a replacement for the 60w P8604: Progress 8652 (100w with circuit breaker)

Removed 8604, Hooked up 8652 to the existing, in-place fixture first. Hit the swtich, Trips breaker, some bulbs blow. One turned silverish on the inside (no longer clear glass) and there's a large piece rattling inside it.

Given my ignorance, I installed the second fixture with the existing (hey maybe stepped down12v 100w power is too much for a 48w string...)
Same thing: the bulbs maybe took the first jolt (they lit briefly), but on the 2nd one I got nothing.

The juice on the circuit is more like 150v (via multi-tester set on 150 & 300) (on a 15 amp circuit). But remember, the P8604 works fine with that input. and it (like the 8652) is rated at 120v input.

Sanity Check 1: Is it possible _because_ of the existence of the 8652 breaker that the 148v is too much? Before I realized what was happening I tried immediately flipping the breaker on -- that forced the 15amp breaker in the panel to trip. the 60w doesn't trip because it _can't_ with no breaker??

Sanity check 2: If bulbs are blowing they're getting too much juice right? Implying that my new 8652 100w trans isn't actually stepping the power down. Right? And hence a defective transformer.

Sanity check 3: the instructs for 8652 mention wires x1 & X2 -- those wires are in the 8604 -- but both are red. So, I just put black to black and white to white. What I'm asking is lo-v trans don't have any sort of counter intuituitive x-wiring reqs? The diagram on the unit and in the instructions don't seem to _quite_ confirm this. I realize x-wiring is doubtful, but I tried that anyway. Besides -- I matched the wiring as well as I could with what the p8604 had.

I'm going to put the 60w back and see what happens -- but first I gotta get some more 3w bulbs to be sure...

thanks for any confirmation/help folks.

 

[k_buz]

I didn't completely read your entire post, but if you have a 120/240V single phase service, and you are seeing 150V, something is seriously wrong. I'd call the POCO to come meter your service.

 

[mpoulton]

148V is WAY too high. There is something seriously wrong, like a loose or open neutral on a multi-wire branch circuit. I would expect that to instantly damage most equipment. If I had to guess, I'd say your previous transformer was actually a switching power supply ("electronic transformer") with a regulated output and a broad input range. The new one is apparently unregulated and doesn't like the excessive input voltage. You should turn this circuit off at the panel and not use it until the problem is solved. You should probably hire an electrician to troubleshoot this - it requires quite a solid understanding of circuits and home wiring practices.

 

[rokosz]

If I'm to believe my equipment, the _entire_ house is running at +140v.

the service was upgraded to 200a 4 years ago. I'm seeing the +140v on _any_ circuit I can plug into (and of course the culprit circuit that started the OP)

Have had no problems with any other equipment/circuits.

If I use my cheapie "does the outlet have power" tester: that lights up the 110v bulb (the next highest is 220v)

If I use my ac/dc "select a mode" multi-tester I'm getting the <150v. It seems the most accurate reading is 144 on the AC300 setting. AC150 setting yields approximately the same. Thought of the possibility that the multi-tester was out of adjustment, but its ok.


So is my new transformer shot if it took a 144vs and doesn't like them?

How about the lo-v fixtures now that they've been goosed with high voltage? (I haven't gotten new 3w bulbs yet)

thanks folks.

 

[joed]

Are you sure you didn't connect the transformer backwards and put the 120 volts onto the 12 volt side.
Get another meter and check the voltage. I suspect your meter is bad. Or try to measure 240 volts somewhere and see what you get. Check the batteries.

 

[kbsparky]

I'd check the calibration of my meter on a known source or against a good meter before proceeding. Make sure your readings are accurate.

 

[rokosz]

Yeah, good chance. backwards wiring

Not sure. Haven't proved it yet. But this could be the dumbest thing I've done.

In my defense, the original trans had obvious labeled X1 & X2 wires.
The new one does not - only three wires white,black & yellow (boost). And they're nice long ones that easily exit the KOs. It made sense to me that the romex would enter the box through a KO, split into three: b&w go right into that housing, ground to the screw.

The device I considered the supply receiver (and apparently is the X1/X2) has _no_ markings denoting their respective X. one side has "500v" the other "10(o)" (that's degree). The black coming out of this housing goes to the breaker device and then into the guts of the trans.

Of course, in hindsight, I did read tfm, but it just didn't sink in. I got waylaid by subsituting the red X1/X2 of the old for the white&black of the new -- and a bad assumption that the "boost" would be applicable only to the "fixture" side of the wiring rather than supply. There's a nice little figure 4 wiring diagram with the labelled 120vac/60hz supply and underneath it "||| ground" "white COM" "black (120v)" and "Yellow (Boost)" Oh sure, now its obvious.

So, once again: Since it certainly seems I "backward" wired the transformer and gave it juice, at least a handful of times, are my new transformer and/or fixtures shot? Or is this a dumb-diy event I can pretty easily recover from by just replacing 32 bulbs?

thanks again all.

 

[Missouri Bound]

Take your meter and walk over to your neighbors and check their outlets. Then throw it out. If you have 140 - 150 volts at your home, you would have multiple signs ...computer, tv, refrigerator and all your light would be burning out prematurely. You wired up your lights wrong, that's the only issues.:whistling2:

 

[kbsparky]

Sounds like you wired it in series like a buck/boost unit, in boost mode.

While it probably won't hurt the transformer, it certainly will fry those bulbs.

The top wiring diagram on the unit should be followed. X1 and X2 are your 12 Volt outputs -- they do NOT connect to either of the incoming lines.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I've had a Progress (8604) 60w trans powering a under cabinet Progress 16 bulb ea.3w fixture.
48w wasn't enough so I intend to install another progress, identical fixture and daisy chain into 32 bulbs for 96w.

Presuming dimming if I don't upgrade the 60w trans, I got a replacement for the 60w P8604: Progress 8652 (100w with circuit breaker)

Removed 8604, Hooked up 8652 to the existing, in-place fixture first. Hit the swtich, Trips breaker, some bulbs blow. One turned silverish on the inside (no longer clear glass) and there's a large piece rattling inside it.

Given my ignorance, I installed the second fixture with the existing (hey maybe stepped down12v 100w power is too much for a 48w string...)
Same thing: the bulbs maybe took the first jolt (they lit briefly), but on the 2nd one I got nothing.

The juice on the circuit is more like 150v (via multi-tester set on 150 & 300) (on a 15 amp circuit). But remember, the P8604 works fine with that input. and it (like the 8652) is rated at 120v input.

Sanity Check 1: Is it possible _because_ of the existence of the 8652 breaker that the 148v is too much? Before I realized what was happening I tried immediately flipping the breaker on -- that forced the 15amp breaker in the panel to trip. the 60w doesn't trip because it _can't_ with no breaker??

Sanity check 2: If bulbs are blowing they're getting too much juice right? Implying that my new 8652 100w trans isn't actually stepping the power down. Right? And hence a defective transformer.

Sanity check 3: the instructs for 8652 mention wires x1 & X2 -- those wires are in the 8604 -- but both are red. So, I just put black to black and white to white. What I'm asking is lo-v trans don't have any sort of counter intuituitive x-wiring reqs? The diagram on the unit and in the instructions don't seem to _quite_ confirm this. I realize x-wiring is doubtful, but I tried that anyway. Besides -- I matched the wiring as well as I could with what the p8604 had.

I'm going to put the 60w back and see what happens -- but first I gotta get some more 3w bulbs to be sure...

thanks for any confirmation/help folks.

So the 60w tranny works ok ?
But the new one doesn't ?
The 60w supply is probably designed for higher
input voltage, whilst the new one isnt !
Probably an over voltage device is doing
what it is meant to.
Have you verified your voltage readings with a
known good meter ?

 

[64pvolvo1800]

While you toasted your bulbs again, the fixture is probably ok. The transformer is simply a multiplier. Sometimes by a fraction and sometimes by multiples. You put 1200V on your poor bulbs! The windings are no doubt rated 300v for this xfirmer. It won't hurt to light it up again properly wired and with nothing connected just to see what happens. If you've compromised the windings it will heat up and trip the breaker on its own. Then try it connected if it passes this test and it'll likely be ok.
Last, as someone said, take your meter to a neighbors house and test 120 outlet. Then take it home and place it in a vice. Turn the handle on said vice until all the guts of your cheapie meter spill out onto the floor. It could just as easily lied to you and said zero, in which case we would be reading bout you in a different place. I don't know how they get away selling garbage that has the potential to electrocute someone.

 

[rokosz]

Just the faintest whiff...

Thanks for the help & confirmations guys. I'll be doing "field confirmations" as soon as i can get my hands on some bulbs.

What I'd forgot to mention in my earlier posts: When I was blowing these bulbs, or rather each (successful) attempt at blowing these bulbs I would climb back up on the counter (K sink light) up to where the trans is - there would be just a faint hint of "electric" smell. If I remember right I smelt-that's a fish, smelled it 3x. Yeah, field confirmations are in order.