[odie91]

1977 built house. Opened up drywall, and it became apparent to me that the structure is sagging. Then knowing this, a sag in the basement also became more visible to my eye.

Do you think this was framed improperly to begin with, or was the design okay and it's just dumb luck?

The diagram shows the 1st floor of a 2 story house (with full basement)

A1-A2 is an internal load bearing wall, that rests on top of the steel beam in basement. Ceiling joists rest on top of the wall.

C1-C2 is an internal load bearing wall, that rests on top of a steel beam in basement. Ceiling joists rest on top of the wall.

D1-D2 is an external wall of the house. Ceiling joists rest on top of the wall.

B1-B2 is a steel beam sandwiched by a pair of 2x10's, and is pushed flush into the ceiling. The ceiling joists attach to beam "B" via hangers

Now get this.... at point "Z", there is a triple stud in the wall. Then beam "B" sits right on top of the point "Z".

I can see that beam "B" has put so much weight on the triple stud at "Z" that "Z" has sunk a good 2 to 3 inches (measured with a level).

Also, it's interesting to know that directly underneath "Z", in the basement, they have triple floor joists. The joists are deflecting the same amount as what's seen on the 1st floor. The joists - seen in the basement - run from "A" to "C".

Is this a 20/20 hindsight poor design, or does this design seem practical to you?

How would you repair this? Would you lift the structure and add a steel column in the basement (with footing), directly under "Z"? Or would you add some sort of beam (perhaps a steel I-beam) in the basement, that spans from "A" to "C", and runs directly under "Z"?

 

[odie91]

Forgot to mention. Joists are 2x10's and spaced 16"

 

[odie91]

Added some more labels to the drawing to make it easier to visualize

 

[Mingledtrash]

3-2x10's spanning 18 ft. seems to small especially with 2 floors and a roof on top.

Because you have a 2 story on top of a full basement the complexity of the load is such that you will need a structural engineer to come on site and do an inspection and recommend a fix. At first glance adding a post a point Z would seem to be the easiest route to take but then you must realize that you will need to cut up the concrete and add a footing at that point. other options could be adding steel plate to beam, more ply's or, both. You could also add in a glulam beam or built up LvL beam.

 

[ChuckTin]

I'd be looking at what's occurring in the basement to allow 2-3" of sag at Z.
Is there subsidence there? And why?

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[crecore]

Hard to tell but it seems that there was a change in plans, remodeling or something. You have steel beams that all seem proper but then you have this flinch plate beam. These are used so that you can hang joists with hangers but not reduce headroom. This in itself may not have been bad but why point z has all of the load is curious. Does this flinch plate continue to the outer wall? Was the outer wall adequate to support and transfer this load? Did it sag 2-3" as well? In my experience you can slowly over time Jack some of that out but you will never get it all without separation, cracking and other unexpected and improper movement. Especially with point z being so close to the outer wall.

 

[odie91]

interesting that you say that it might be part of a remodel. perhaps part of the trend of the whole open concept layout. this is/was after all, a colonial.

the plate stops at "Z", and does not extend further. actually, I added some more detail to that segment of the drawing, to show that it's nowhere near an outer wall. that thick line that "Z" is part of is actually a wall that divided a base cabinet; i'm not sure why i drew it extra thick.

the flinch plate is 12 feet long. why didn't they extend it longer? my guess is the basement. it's about 18 feet long. but anything south of "Z" is a mess of furnace, conduit, hvac ducts, plumbing. so if they made the flinch plate longer thatn 12", then perhaps they didn't want the hassle of re-arranging the basement. i believe the distance from north wall, to closest garage wall is 20 feet. too long a span for the finch plate?

 

[odie91]

I'd be looking at what's occurring in the basement to allow 2-3" of sag at Z.
Is there subsidence there? And why?

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i assume there would be cracks in the basement foundation if there was? i don't see any cracks.