[TripleHotFudge]

Hi there,


I live in an old old house which still has some 2-prong ungrounded-outlets in certain rooms. I bought a pack of 15A-125V 2-prong grounded outlets to replace these. I plugged in a lamp into the old outlet and then I went down to my circuit breaker box and flipped off breakers until I found the one that shut the light off. So, I know the outlet is dead now. Is it okay to replace outlets in this granular manner or is there a philosophy to err on the side of safety by just shutting all the electricity off by flipping the full main breakers? Please let me know.

Also, I just want to confirm that this copper wire is my proof that my electrical system is properly grounded. Or at least the copper wire represents that very high likelihood that it is. The copper wire comes out of my electrical box and goes across the wall to this water pipe.

Thanks for reading!

 

[MountainMan83]

Is there a ground wire going to the outlet itself? Because it sounds like you are simply going to hookup a three-prong grounded receptacle without a ground wire in the outlet box itself.

 

[TripleHotFudge]

Is there a ground wire going to the outlet itself? Because it sounds like you are simply going to hookup a three-prong grounded receptacle without a ground wire in the outlet box itself.

I can't really answer that question yet. I guess I'll have to look at each outlet as I remove them. I'll update the thread when I know. I still need an answer for the question about which circuit breakers need to be off. I figure if the outlet is dead there's no real danger but just thought I would confirm.

 

[MountainMan83]

I can't really answer that question yet. I guess I'll have to look at each outlet as I remove them. I'll update the thread when I know. I still need an answer for the question about which circuit breakers need to be off. I figure if the outlet is dead there's no real danger but just thought I would confirm.

I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to jump right into it in case you didn't have a ground wire in the box. As for the breaker you should be fine turning off just the circuit breaker itself, as long as you are working on only the outlets that you have tested to be dead after switching the breaker off, you can never be too careful. If it makes you feel any more safe, you could go ahead and turn off the main, but it is not necessary.

 

[TripleHotFudge]

I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to jump right into it in case you didn't have a ground wire in the box. As for the breaker you should be fine turning off just the circuit breaker itself, as long as you are working on only the outlets that you have tested to be dead after switching the breaker off, you can never be too careful. If it makes you feel any more safe, you could go ahead and turn off the main, but it is not necessary.

Thank You very much for your response. I will keep updating this thread as I go.

 

[HotRodx10]

As long as you turn off the correct breaker, and you confirm there'sno power to the outlet, then you can safely work on the outlet.



To add to what MountainMan83 said, you must have a ground (third wire or connection through the conduit, etc. back to the electrical panel), in addition to the hot and neutral wires, for a 3 prong outlet.

 

[TripleHotFudge]

So, this is my first exposed outlet. I can only see 2 wires on the outlet itself. I'm guessing that the 3rd wire hooks up to the actual metal box that houses the outlet? That's where I'll have to look I think.

Here is another shot further back into the housing box:

 

[Joeywhat]

It seems like you don't have grounded wiring. If you did you would see a third, likely bare copper wire also running into that box. You should not install grounded outlets without a proper ground connection. You cannot just connect the outlet ground to the box, the ground connection doesn't go anywhere after that.

 

[Joeywhat]

You can look around inside the outlet box to see if a ground wire attached to the incoming cable is attached to the box somewhere that isn't readily seen, but that seems unlikely at this point.

 

[TripleHotFudge]

You can look around inside the outlet box to see if a ground wire attached to the incoming cable is attached to the box somewhere that isn't readily seen, but that seems unlikely at this point.

I agree. The odds of this outlet having a ground-wire are slim since it's a 2-prong outlet with no ground to begin with. And the age of the house. So, I'll look at getting some new wiring to go along with the new outlets.

 

[HotRodx10]

Unless by chance the box itself is grounded, you'll need to pull new cables that have a ground wire. An ungrounded 3 prong outlet is more more unsafe than a 2 prong outlet.

 

[seharper]

First, you can't just slap on grounded outlets because you find the ungrounded ones inconvenient. You have to do it the right way, or don't do it.

First you need to find out if the house is properly grounded, and for that you need to inspect the Grounding Electrode system, which is the copper wiring from your panel to the ground rods or competent water-main grounding. Finding a wire clamped on a random faucet isn't enough, because if the water company changed to a plastic smart meter, or if any plumbing has been upgraded/repaired recently, that "ground" isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Second, if the house is grounded, you need to see if the grounding actually connects from your receptacle location to the main panel's grounds. You can't use water pipes for that. However a ground path is valid if it goes to the panel, to metal conduit going to the panel, to a junction box that has a ground that goes to the panel (and is >= this ground in size), or it can go to the copper wires that go to a working Grounding Electrode system (i.e. from the panel to the rod/pipe, but not any random water pipe because almost any new work is plastic and future repairs will be made in plastic).

If you are able to retrofit one of the above grounds, then go for it. I just listed the types you are allowed to retrofit.

Being a steel junction box does not mean it is grounded. In the 50s and 60s, steel junction boxes were the only kind lol.

If your box IS grounded, then you can take those outlets back to the store and get Tamper Resistant ones. (e.g. T5320-WMP if you like Leviton), and fit those up. Ground to the #10-32 grounding screw in the back of the steel junction box.

If your box IS NOT grounded, then you can take those outlets back to the store and get GFCI 3-prong outlets and fit those up without ground. Leave the warning tape in place, do not use the LOAD terminals, put all wires on LINE. Exception: if you understand exactly how GFCI devices work, and you understand what downline protection and how to implement it, you can use LOAD for that one purpose.

 

[rjniles]

Looks time like there is a stub of the ground wire between the 2 insulated conductors. Extend it out and ground the box and the receptacle. You also need to open the breaker panel and connect the ground wire to the ground bar if it is not connected.

These connectors work great for extending the ground wire

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Spliceline-42-Orange-In-Line-Push-In-Butt-Splices-10-Pack-30-1342S/202894306

 

[Old Thomas]

Even if I turn the circuit breaker off I still put a tester on the wires before I touch them. I would test to see if the metal box is grounded. If it is you can use it for your ground. If not, you have no equipment ground. In that case there is a provision in the NEC where you put the circuit on a GFCI, install your grounded type receptacles and label each one “GFCI Protected, No Equipment Ground”. I did that is some rentals by making a sheet of labels with the computer and sticking them on. That is, if you want it to be code compliant and to have an alternative similar level of safety. FYI, it is in accordance with NEC Section 406.4(D)(2)(c).

 

[Datawise]

Tamper-proof receptacles required?

Cheers
John

 

[chetwisner]

Check at the breaker that you turned off to see if there is a ground wire (bare copper) going to the ground bar in the panel. This should tell you whether or not the first device (whichever, and wherever that is) in the ciruit is grounded. Then you can check all downstreams to make sure they're grounded in the boxes. Hopefully, the first device from the breaker will be a receptacle, but it could also be a light, or a switch.