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mpoulton, do you even have a clue in what VM's can do? They can do the same as running a conventional computer, and can take advantage of the multiple cores, along with the RAM available. Especially if the person setting up the VM on the server knows what they are doing. As for what the OP is doing, it is nothing in the line of what a Supercomputer would do, due to from the sounds of it, they are doing some type of distributed computing, which was a fad five years ago, but is starting to fade. Especially in the past three years.

You may want to give this a read. http://itbusinessnet.com/article/Distributed-and-Cloud-Computing-1720627
 

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Discussion Starter #22
You have no idea what his specific application is, so telling him to use less hardware and more VM's isn't very helpful. That's like telling a professional welder to use a 120V wire-feed machine because it uses less power than a 300A stick welder. Virtualization of that type is great for some servers, but almost useless for most number crunching purposes. Many number crunching applications are only efficient if there is a hard drive and large amount of memory available for every few processor cores. Virtualization does absolutely nothing to increase memory bandwidth, and obviously doesn't increase the actual processing power available for a given hardware setup (in fact, it decreases it due to overhead). You can't replace a supercomputing cluster with a few Xeon cores and some VM's. If he needs the power, he needs the power.

This isn't a bitcoin farm, is it?
This is right. VMs cannot help my devices. In fact they cannot run VMs.
 

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You will pay substantially more for AC with this additional heat load, and may need to add a dedicated cooling unit (window AC or mini split system) just for the server area. This is equivalent to running a hefty space heater 24/7.
Thanks, I might have to do that or look into data centers. One way or another I have to spend more money.
 

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Are you planning on locating these servers in a spare room, or in space that you plan to actively use? If the former, you might want to look into the research on the failure rates vs. ambient temperatures of the data centers. That'll give you an idea of around what temperature you should keep the room at.

You may also want to look at shelling out at least a little bit more for a better UPS. Many proper UPSes, even the cheap ones, have either a ethernet or serial connection that allows them to tell the protected computers to automatically shutdown on power failure.
 

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mpoulton, do you even have a clue in what VM's can do? They can do the same as running a conventional computer, and can take advantage of the multiple cores, along with the RAM available. Especially if the person setting up the VM on the server knows what they are doing. As for what the OP is doing, it is nothing in the line of what a Supercomputer would do, due to from the sounds of it, they are doing some type of distributed computing, which was a fad five years ago, but is starting to fade. Especially in the past three years.

You may want to give this a read. http://itbusinessnet.com/article/Distributed-and-Cloud-Computing-1720627
When someone says "number crunching," it typically means a well threaded (or multiple process) application that is more than likely CPU bound. If this is the case, VMs will hurt, not help.
 

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Are you planning on locating these servers in a spare room, or in space that you plan to actively use? If the former, you might want to look into the research on the failure rates vs. ambient temperatures of the data centers. That'll give you an idea of around what temperature you should keep the room at.

You may also want to look at shelling out at least a little bit more for a better UPS. Many proper UPSes, even the cheap ones, have either a ethernet or serial connection that allows them to tell the protected computers to automatically shutdown on power failure.
They'll be in a spare room. The UPS I posted earlier won't be used for this. I will get a new one.

Thanks for the tips on temperature. Looks like 72-80F should be a target. With my a/c set to 78 during the summer, I think adding a portable cooler should suffice. I'm looking at evaporative coolers now, apparently they work best in dry and hot areas. Hey! Arizona + Server room :D
 

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When someone says "number crunching," it typically means a well threaded (or multiple process) application that is more than likely CPU bound. If this is the case, VMs will hurt, not help.
I know what number crunching is. As for the multiple processes, if you have the right CPU and the correct amount of RAM needed for running multiple VM'S, the machine will never even notice, nor will the software. And most of the time, the GPU will be used for the number crunching vs. the CPU. Also, there have been many that have used the PS3 to do the same.
 

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Are you planning on locating these servers in a spare room, or in space that you plan to actively use? If the former, you might want to look into the research on the failure rates vs. ambient temperatures of the data centers. That'll give you an idea of around what temperature you should keep the room at.

You may also want to look at shelling out at least a little bit more for a better UPS. Many proper UPSes, even the cheap ones, have either a ethernet or serial connection that allows them to tell the protected computers to automatically shutdown on power failure.
This. If you can stand an orderly shutdown, you wouldn't need much battery time. The unit would, however, have to be able to handle the watt load for at least a couple minutes. Batteries might go quickly but the inverter would have to be able to handle the load.

And if it's like our recent servers, you should be able to get by running the room at 75-80º, but without knowing more about your specific machines, it'd be hard to say.

I would try a good-quality UPS (as mentioned earlier), connect the USB/serial links for auto-shutdown so you wouldn't loose work, and think about leaving the room door open and putting a floor-fan outside to help prevent hot-spots. That seems to work fairly well for my home office which gets a bit toasty on summer afternoons. I'd for-sure try that at least before putting in additional HVAC.
 

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I know what number crunching is. As for the multiple processes, if you have the right CPU and the correct amount of RAM needed for running multiple VM'S, the machine will never even notice, nor will the software. And most of the time, the GPU will be used for the number crunching vs. the CPU. Also, there have been many that have used the PS3 to do the same.
You don't seem to get it. If a CPU bound task is already consuming all CPU, adding a virtualization layer takes away performance.

The GPU is only used for very specific workloads and you have to write your app in a very specific manner (using something like NVIDIA's CUDA) in order to make use of the advantages it has.

Virtualization is great. But it makes no sense for certain workloads.
 

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I think we should just stick to the subject of the OP,did you find out what your circuit is rated at yet?


"You know you're old if you know COMALand COBOL"
 

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Okay, unless I've forgotten my math skills, a 1760 watt load on a 120v circuit will pull right at 15a. (That's neglecting power factor, which for most modern equipment is just about 1 anyway.) You can't pull 15a on a 15a circuit continuously - that's a no-no. Figuring in an 80% derate, that'd mean you'd need an 18-and-change amp circuit, so you could get by with a 20a circuit providing there wasn't anything else on that circuit.

The optimal solution would be to bring in a couple dedicated 20a circuits, but since you're renting that's not an option. Personally, given your situation, I'd split the load and use two sets of equipment and two UPSes on two different circuits. That would also halve your heat load in any given location, which might help. Being a renter kinda limits your options... Do you have a friend with a house and a broadband connection that might be able to colo your equipment?
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I think we should just stick to the subject of the OP,did you find out what your circuit is rated at yet?


"You know you're old if you know COMALand COBOL"
Sorry been out all day.

There are two rooms that share the same circuit. Luckily these two rooms are my spare rooms. The circuit is the far bottom right labeled '15'. Which I'm guessing means my limits are 15a and 120V (V reading from my kill a watt). So my max is 120*15*0.8=1440W. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately these are the two rooms I wanted to split my hardware. I could ensure nothing is plugged in the other spare (guest) room, but that would be a hassle for my guests.

I was thinking, maybe I could ask the landlord (which is actually a company) if they could put my server room on a dedicated 20a and leave the other room on the 15a. Would this be feasible with the existing infrastructure?

Any other ideas?


 

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Discussion Starter #33
Okay, unless I've forgotten my math skills, a 1760 watt load on a 120v circuit will pull right at 15a. (That's neglecting power factor, which for most modern equipment is just about 1 anyway.) You can't pull 15a on a 15a circuit continuously - that's a no-no. Figuring in an 80% derate, that'd mean you'd need an 18-and-change amp circuit, so you could get by with a 20a circuit providing there wasn't anything else on that circuit.

The optimal solution would be to bring in a couple dedicated 20a circuits, but since you're renting that's not an option. Personally, given your situation, I'd split the load and use two sets of equipment and two UPSes on two different circuits. That would also halve your heat load in any given location, which might help. Being a renter kinda limits your options... Do you have a friend with a house and a broadband connection that might be able to colo your equipment?
Yeah I think I need a dedicated circuit, see my last post. It could be an option if I had approval from the landlord and paid for it myself. I'm guessing $100-200? The electrical panel is on the other side of my server room, if this makes any differences on installation costs.

I really don't want to leave my equipment with a friend. I'm just too afraid it would get damaged.
 

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You would need a little rewiring. You would have to fish a wire for the new circuit to one of the existing outlets, then disconnect the rooms from each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
You would need a little rewiring. You would have to fish a wire for the new circuit to one of the existing outlets, then disconnect the rooms from each other.
Also, is there a limit on power usage for all circuits combined?

My a/c, washer, dryer, water heater, kitchen appliances, etc are all on their own circuits, but does running them all at the same time have any affect on my electrical line?

I was just imagining a hot summer weekend where we're washing clothes and cooking up lunch and the servers are running.
 

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Getting back on topic.....

1750 Watts will generate about 5971 BTU's of heat....

If you adding up the max power on all the servers to come up with your total wattage.....chances are you will never see it....

I would see if you have two ckts in the room...as in outlets fed from 2 different breakers...if so, get two UPS's and run 2 servers on each one with the servers plugged into seperate outlets.

As for the 'number crunching'....I'm guessing that he is running a ****o site and the 'numbers' are the number of perverts logged on....
 

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Getting back on topic.....

1750 Watts will generate about 5971 BTU's of heat....

If you adding up the max power on all the servers to come up with your total wattage.....chances are you will never see it....

I would see if you have two ckts in the room...as in outlets fed from 2 different breakers...if so, get two UPS's and run 2 servers on each one with the servers plugged into seperate outlets.

As for the 'number crunching'....I'm guessing that he is running a ****o site and the 'numbers' are the number of perverts logged on....
Ah nice, I didn't you could calculate BTU from W.

I checked all outlets in the two rooms and they all share the one circuit.

This is not a ****o site or any website. Like I mentioned earlier they are inaccessible from the internet. And this is nothing illegal! Sigh, I just want to provide the important details and anything beyond the wattage of my devices aren't.
 

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Since both of your possible rooms are on the same circuit, and it's only a 15a anyway, I would think your best solution is to contact your landlord and see if you can have an electrician drop in a dedicated 20a circuit. (Assuming you're going to be there long enough to make it worthwhile...)

You say your panel is in one of the rooms. That might make it real easy to install an outlet under the panel and just drop a short feed from the panel to the box. Plug your UPS into that outlet and run a power strip with a long cord along the baseboard over to where your equipment will be. Caveat: I'm not an electrician so I don't know if it's code-compliant to put an outlet directly under a panel, so one of the board's Sparkies would have to chime in here. But it sure would minimize the amount of fishing/time/expense involved. And I'm pretty sure from reading these boatrds that commercial property must be done by a licensed electrician and with the landlord's approval. And I might just be sure to get that approval in writing... :)

PS: Some people just aren't worth paying attention to...
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Since both of your possible rooms are on the same circuit, and it's only a 15a anyway, I would think your best solution is to contact your landlord and see if you can have an electrician drop in a dedicated 20a circuit. (Assuming you're going to be there long enough to make it worthwhile...)

You say your panel is in one of the rooms. That might make it real easy to install an outlet under the panel and just drop a short feed from the panel to the box. Plug your UPS into that outlet and run a power strip with a long cord along the baseboard over to where your equipment will be. Caveat: I'm not an electrician so I don't know if it's code-compliant to put an outlet directly under a panel, so one of the board's Sparkies would have to chime in here. But it sure would minimize the amount of fishing/time/expense involved. And I'm pretty sure from reading these boatrds that commercial property must be done by a licensed electrician and with the landlord's approval. And I might just be sure to get that approval in writing... :)

PS: Some people just aren't worth paying attention to...
The panel is on the other side of the wall (outside) so I would have to embed the wiring in the wall.

I'll call my landlord on Monday and ask if I could add a 20A outlet, with written approval and ensure it's done by a licensed electrician. -Thanks

Hopefully this works out and I could plug the 1250W and cooling unit to the 20A outlet, then the rest of the lighter devices on the existing 15A outlets.
 

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Getting back on topic.....

1750 Watts will generate about 5971 BTU's of heat....

If you adding up the max power on all the servers to come up with your total wattage.....chances are you will never see it....

I would see if you have two ckts in the room...as in outlets fed from 2 different breakers...if so, get two UPS's and run 2 servers on each one with the servers plugged into seperate outlets.

As for the 'number crunching'....I'm guessing that he is running a ****o site and the 'numbers' are the number of perverts logged on....
ddawg, usually if they skirt the question, that means that they have taken this farther than it should have. At this point, it is pretty much repeated over and over, that all the OP needs to do is get a dedicated circuit or circuits into that space, and also needs to use a good quality back up/power conditioner than the cheap garbage that he first linked, along with having the proper sensor equipment to measure not only room & humidity temp, but also can send a sms when equipment temps get higher than expected.

Going back to my original statement, this falls more into a hobby, unless it is work related and the person is trying to stay on top of tech, but they are better off just co-locating the equipment and that way no worry of high electric bills for cooling, or running equipment, plus downtime would be a min. due to the coloc would have proper backup controls to keep downtime to the most min. time.
 
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