[dinosaur1]

Our flower carpet roses will not grow to their desired height because
they are close to a tree in the same landscaping area. We purchased
Knockout roses last year and they were placed in our backyard where
it's very hot in the summer and they seemed to survive very nicely and
look very healthy and strong. Would it be a good idea to dig out and
relocate the carpet roses to a new area next to our home before they
die completely so they can grow how they are supposed to and not
struggle so much in the location that they are in? We were thinking
of placing the Knockout roses where the flower carpet roses were.

Let me know, thanks.

 

[GardenConcepts]

If the Flower Carpet Roses are struggling, the Knockouts won't do any better. You do realize that the Flower Carpet Rose is considered a groundcover Rose?

 

[downunder]

As we say down here in the south, "Bless your heart!" You will not get anything to grow under the trees satisfactorily. I will try to make some pics and post them to show exactly how much of a fight you have there.

 

[dinosaur1]

here is how they looked after winter and now at Spring.

https://picasaweb.google.com/pewaukeedp/FlowerCarpetRoses?authkey=Gv1sRgCI2Nj_z_zqXMqAE#

 

[downunder]

Here is the difference being under trees makes for roses- and others also.
All were planted three years ago, at the same time, the same size (3 gal).

 

[dinosaur1]

Here is the difference being under trees makes for roses- and others also.
All were planted three years ago, at the same time, the same size (3 gal).

Wow are those flower carpet roses like mine?

What other type of plant should I place there because it's a space that would have about 7 ft long by 2 ft wide space uncovered?

 

[Leah Frances]

Wow are those flower carpet roses like mine?

What other type of plant should I place there because it's a space that would have about 7 ft long by 2 ft wide space uncovered?

Is it truly 'under' the tree? What kind of tree (it matters)? Full shade? Morning/afternoon sun?

 

[dinosaur1]

Is it truly 'under' the tree? What kind of tree (it matters)? Full shade? Morning/afternoon sun?

They are 3-5 feet away from a tree. We even have hostas that won't grow properly there.

 

[dinosaur1]

The tree is right in the back. Roses are in the middle of the landscaping.Do you think I should remove the plants in the middle and just make 2 rings with the pavers I have there? 1 around the tree and 1 around the lightpole and then plant new grass in the middle? We cannot grow anything there anyway....Let me know, thanks.

 

[Leah Frances]

I wouldn't change anything about the hardscaping until you get your soil tested. Something's going on there if both the roses and hostas are unhappy. Go to your local GARDEN CENTER (not lowes or home depot) and get a soil test kit - one that you send away.

You should move the roses no matter what. That tree will get big enough to shade them out.

 

[dinosaur1]

I wouldn't change anything about the hardscaping until you get your soil tested. Something's going on there if both the roses and hostas are unhappy. Go to your local GARDEN CENTER (not lowes or home depot) and get a soil test kit - one that you send away.

You should move the roses no matter what. That tree will get big enough to shade them out.

How hard would it be seed some grass in that area? I was thinking of leaving a circle around the lightpole and around the tree and to place grass seed in the middle. What do you think?

 

[Leah Frances]

Grass is hard to grow under trees both b/c of shade and many trees have lots of tiny roots in the upper strata of topsoil that pull too much moisture for grass.

If your heart is set on grass try it, use a shade mix of perennial grasses. Be ready to water.

Me, I'd pop some hostas where the roses were and be done with it. But I like hostas.

 

[dinosaur1]

Grass is hard to grow under trees both b/c of shade and many trees have lots of tiny roots in the upper strata of topsoil that pull too much moisture for grass.

If your heart is set on grass try it, use a shade mix of perennial grasses. Be ready to water.

Me, I'd pop some hostas where the roses were and be done with it. But I like hostas.

So leave the landscaping as is? If I put knockout roses there do you think they will also suffer? We have Knockouts in our backyard where during the summer it's very hot and they grew like mad!

 

[KeithWhisman]

Do Hostas have flowers? Do they grow in Phoenix?

 

[Leah Frances]

So leave the landscaping as is? If I put knockout roses there do you think they will also suffer? We have Knockouts in our backyard where during the summer it's very hot and they grew like mad!

The knockouts will probably suffer too. Sorry.

 

[downunder]

dinosaur,
Sorry for not answering sooner.

A. The roses I posted are knockouts.
B. The tree just behind the roses is a mature sugar maple. From the camera's perspective there is a redbud and a couple of oaks.
C. The photo with the smallest roses is on the west side of this park but they are directly under the canopy of some very old oak trees.

In this situation, the trees will always win when fighting for water. However, in your yard there should not be nearly the competition. Also, there is plenty of light and room for knockouts to thrive there. Something else is going on. I would try to get my local extension agent or a master gardener to come out on-site and help you.

In my opinion, landscaping is a lot like your wardrobe. Different people like different things. Some things obviously don't go together but that is another story. Personally, I would leave the one bed around both the light pole and the tree. But I like clumps. For one thing, maintenance is much easier that way.

 

[dinosaur1]

dinosaur,
Sorry for not answering sooner.

A. The roses I posted are knockouts.
B. The tree just behind the roses is a mature sugar maple. From the camera's perspective there is a redbud and a couple of oaks.
C. The photo with the smallest roses is on the west side of this park but they are directly under the canopy of some very old oak trees.

In this situation, the trees will always win when fighting for water. However, in your yard there should not be nearly the competition. Also, there is plenty of light and room for knockouts to thrive there. Something else is going on. I would try to get my local extension agent or a master gardener to come out on-site and help you.

In my opinion, landscaping is a lot like your wardrobe. Different people like different things. Some things obviously don't go together but that is another story. Personally, I would leave the one bed around both the light pole and the tree. But I like clumps. For one thing, maintenance is much easier that way.

The flower carpet roses are in the middle. After 2 yrs look at how small they are after Spring. Do you think I should make a circle around the lightpole and tree and put grass sod in the middle or would that look weird? If I take out the carpet roses there will be so much empty space in the middle there.

 

[downunder]

Nice turf!

I'm still having some question as to why things aren't growing well there. It looks like the tree is doing fairly well and it is not large enough yet to effect the bed, especially since it doesn't see to be taking nutrients from the lawn at all. I can't get away from the thinking that something is amiss with the soil immediately surrounding the smaller plants. That said, there is a saying, "sleep, creep, leap." For the most part, when you plant permanent material, the first year they need to get new roots established. If they look healthy, be satisfied. The second year they will begin to grow some and take off the next year. Some roses, such as hybrid teas, will grow faster because that is their nature. But even at that, they need a year of two to get established.

At the risk of overstepping, I presume you are aware that carpet roses are essentially a ground cover. They will get nowhere as large as the knockouts. Thinking back, those I posted are probably about five years old. So if yours are doing well, I wouldn't be overly concerned. However, since you said that even hostas are having trouble there, that worries me a little. But, hostas will tolerate some sun but really like more shade unless irrigated well.

A design idea since you asked:
I like the practice of allowing walkways, driveways, etc to go through a garden as opposed to bordering one edge. Without a photo of the area to the right (I presume between the front door and drive) I could see continuing the bed across the walkway where the walkway in effect goes through the bed so that, instead of passing by, one enjoys the trip through. I would maybe leave one mower strip of lawn beside the driveway going toward the street from the back of the car.

PS
Looking from the camera position, where is north?

 

[dinosaur1]

Nice turf!

I'm still having some question as to why things aren't growing well there. It looks like the tree is doing fairly well and it is not large enough yet to effect the bed, especially since it doesn't see to be taking nutrients from the lawn at all. I can't get away from the thinking that something is amiss with the soil immediately surrounding the smaller plants. That said, there is a saying, "sleep, creep, leap." For the most part, when you plant permanent material, the first year they need to get new roots established. If they look healthy, be satisfied. The second year they will begin to grow some and take off the next year. Some roses, such as hybrid teas, will grow faster because that is their nature. But even at that, they need a year of two to get established.

At the risk of overstepping, I presume you are aware that carpet roses are essentially a ground cover. They will get nowhere as large as the knockouts. Thinking back, those I posted are probably about five years old. So if yours are doing well, I wouldn't be overly concerned. However, since you said that even hostas are having trouble there, that worries me a little. But, hostas will tolerate some sun but really like more shade unless irrigated well.

A design idea since you asked:
I like the practice of allowing walkways, driveways, etc to go through a garden as opposed to bordering one edge. Without a photo of the area to the right (I presume between the front door and drive) I could see continuing the bed across the walkway where the walkway in effect goes through the bed so that, instead of passing by, one enjoys the trip through. I would maybe leave one mower strip of lawn beside the driveway going toward the street from the back of the car.

PS
Looking from the camera position, where is north?

North is to the left.

Instead of the orange mulch all around our home is it a good idea to replace it with some type or orange colored pebbles or rock? Replacing mulch every 2 yrs is getting pricey.

 

[downunder]

I should have touched on this earlier but always give your location when asking gardening questions.

When you say orange mulch, I presume you are referring to shredded pine or cypress which has been dyed? I like the natural color as a matter of personal preference but also because it is somewhat cheaper and cheaper yet to just top dress every year or two.

I don't think I would recommend stone. Other than the obvious higher cost upfront, it is much harder to handle both in installing and working in later. If you are in a warmer climate, stone will not only reflect heat, but hold it in longer making for a hotter microclimate. It is also heavier on the roots. This is one of those times when your location makes a difference.

Since your front yard gets morning sun you have more choices for ornamentals. For those plants which like or can tolerate sun, many times the morning sun vs afternoon sun makes a world of difference.

Back to the roses for a moment, the carpet roses should get about a foot high and a couple of feet wide at maturity. Looks like they are headed there. I am a little concerned that they aren't blooming yet though. This is where you probably need some local help with the soil- at least a good soil analysis.

FWIW-
If you ever get caught up, something's not right!:thumbup:

Later,
Richard