[Dodah]

Hi

We are in process of getting quotes from some roofing companies to replace our old roof w/a new roof.

We have received quotes from small local roofing companies as well as from one large metropolitan city roofing company.

In seeing Consumer Reports' June 2009 edition where laminated roof shingles are rated, we saw one product listed that we researched on Internet and were very interested in seeing. In reviewing the manufacturer's list of local dealers, we saw the name of the large roofing company.

We met w/a rep from this large roofing company, and despite being listed on the manufacturer's website as being a dealer in their product, the large company rep REFUSES to provide a quote for this particular product. He doesn't even provide an explanation as to why he refuses this, but instead keeps referring to his quotation which has a different shingle company's product. Even after my asking him twice to quote on the product the company is a dealer in, the rep just says "the shingles are secondary to the workmanship to apply the system. IKO, GAF/ELK, Certainteed, Pabco, Tamko, Malarkey, are all commodities. It is ______'s process that makes them work. You can choose any manufacturer you are comfortable with. We will exceed their installation requirements!" And then that's it -- instead of quoting who I may be "comfortable with," he leaves it at that!

Is it possible that his large company has some special deal going on w/the product manufacturer that he's pushing on us, so that he has no incentive to quote products by other manufacturers? Or does his company perhaps have some of the product in stock? I'm trying to get some insight into why a roofer would avoid or refuse to quote a product that they deal in. It goes w/o saying that this issue has made me pretty much decide against this roofer, but it also appears this company is the only one that deals in the product I'm interested in so I don't know how I'll be able to see samples of the shingles and examples of homes where they've been applied.

Any input from roofers would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[MJW]

He s correct for the most part...workmanship is #1

Ask him this "Do you, yourself, put on the shingles?"

Shingles are made different all over the country. Up here, Certainteed is easily the best Laminate. Malarkey's look to be a great shingle also. I really don't care for Timberlines, but we do put them on with confidence in our work. Actually am doing a roof tomorrow with them because the customer picked out the shingle. Some just won't budge.

Our guarantee of workmanship is no problem (lifetime).....Any shingle they pick, it will be up to the manufacturer as far as their warranty.

It seems he is still giving you a choice.........I would stray from very large companies, JMO, because the installers is what matters most. Usually they have a bunch of subs that are hacks that can't get their own work.......or they are illegals......

 

[nap]

the guy either has a problem with that product and just does not want to say anything or he makes more money from other brands of shingles. The fact they are an area listed installer by the manufacturer tells me most likely he makes more money from another brand. If a company has problems with a particular brand, they generally just do not sell it yet this company is listed as an installer for the product.

and I'm sorry but the that guy (and sorry but the guy posting before me) put too much on the installer. Yes, it is extremely important to have a good installer. Please do not take that any other way but once you get beyond workmanship (which all shakes out withing about the first year generally) the shingle is the only thing of concern for the long hall.

You can have the best installer in the world putting on a crap shingle and it is still a crap shingle. Take the worst installer in the world and put on the best shingle in the world and you have a big waste of money because a poor installer can screw up the best shingles.

You want a good installer but, as I said, once you get beyond about a year, that lifetime warranty on workmanship is meaningless. They are going to say their workmanship is fine, it is the shingle that is the problem so fixing it is going to cost labor but warranty shingles.

 

[Ed the Roofer]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Consumers Report for shingle quality. Their research surveys are from home owners, who typically do not have the length of time and experience with any one or multiple brands to compare.

The large company was telling you the truth about installation methods being more important.

Now, go check a current job in your neighborhood and see if they follow their own practices that they state.

Do that with any of the other contractors also.

The decision you make will be one that you should hopefully live with for the next 30 + years, if done correctly and Ventilation for Intake and Exhaust are key to the longevity of the life of the newly installed shingles.

Then, ask for a list of homes done 5 and 10 years ago and check out the appearance of them. Did those installations last the test of time?

Ed

 

[MJW]

the guy either has a problem with that product and just does not want to say anything or he makes more money from other brands of shingles. The fact they are an area listed installer by the manufacturer tells me most likely he makes more money from another brand. If a company has problems with a particular brand, they generally just do not sell it yet this company is listed as an installer for the product.

and I'm sorry but the that guy (and sorry but the guy posting before me) put too much on the installer. Yes, it is extremely important to have a good installer. Please do not take that any other way but once you get beyond workmanship (which all shakes out withing about the first year generally) the shingle is the only thing of concern for the long hall.

You can have the best installer in the world putting on a crap shingle and it is still a crap shingle. Take the worst installer in the world and put on the best shingle in the world and you have a big waste of money because a poor installer can screw up the best shingles.

You want a good installer but, as I said, once you get beyond about a year, that lifetime warranty on workmanship is meaningless. They are going to say their workmanship is fine, it is the shingle that is the problem so fixing it is going to cost labor but warranty shingles.

I agree with you, but take this example for instance.........

caulking can hold for year if the flashing is installed incorrectly. By that time, you may be out of a guarantee from a company. Now what?

Workmanship can go a long ways, but yes you need good products. Most who do their own work know what materials work well. There are some we won't use.....The homeowner is notified ahead of time though. If they want some products that we don't want to guarantee, then it is their responsibility for the warranty. We've had 20 year shingles brought out from Menards once for a homeowner building his own house. He had to use those shingles. 3 story house in a field. They were flapping in the wind before we were done.

 

[nap]

I hope I did not raise and feathers. I do not intend on minimizing the guy installing. Workmanship is obviously important but like I said, a lifetime warranty on workmanship is fluff. There is a relatively short period of time where workmanship will show up as just a workmanship problem. After that time, many installers are going to blame the problem on the material simply to avoid giving away labor (I know, not all and the honest moral guys won't but generally those guys will not have many, if any, workmanship problems anyway) See, I am not trying to disparage everybody. Honest good guys are great. Few recalls because they do good work to start. They don't have to deal with workmanship issues. It's kind of funny that way. The guys that give long workmanship warranties really do not need to because their workmanship is good to start. The guys that are a bit shady are going to blame everything but their work to get out of a workmanship claim.

your example is one reason I try to never install a customer supplied material. If it is bad, the customer wants it fixed for free. Well, I didn't make any money off the material. All I did was install and my installation was fine so, if they want a fix, it costs labor and they can get their material warrantied, if available. They hate that but hey, they are the ones that wanted to be cheap in the beginning.



The problem I saw though with the OP is the sales rep would not even quote that product but would not say why. If it is crap, the company should dump it but yet they hang on to it. That leads me to believe it is not as high a profit as whatever he was trying to sell.

If it was an inferior product, most sales reps will say that in one way or another. This guy just blew off the OP. Sounds like money concerns to me.

Now, that doesn't mean the product is bad, or good, just not profitable.

 

[johnk]

He s correct for the most part...workmanship is #1

Ask him this "Do you, yourself, put on the shingles?"

Shingles are made different all over the country. Up here, Certainteed is easily the best Laminate. Malarkey's look to be a great shingle also. I really don't care for Timberlines, but we do put them on with confidence in our work. Actually am doing a roof tomorrow with them because the customer picked out the shingle. Some just won't budge.

Our guarantee of workmanship is no problem (lifetime).....Any shingle they pick, it will be up to the manufacturer as far as their warranty.

It seems he is still giving you a choice.........I would stray from very large companies, JMO, because the installers is what matters most. Usually they have a bunch of subs that are hacks that can't get their own work.......or they are illegals......

Certainteed the best laminate?I'm glad thats your opinion.They are a great shingle.Malarkey is the best shingle,IMO.Have you put them on?Have you felt them?If you get a chance,compare a Certainteed to a Malarkey.Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[MJW]

Nope JohnK, haven't used a Malarkey yet. Have a few samples of them, but haven't used them. Didn't mean to say that Certainteed was better....just that I haven't used the Malarkey yet. They also don't have a "energy credit" shingle that I know of.

A possible customer wants Malarkey 50 years. Don't you think the new Certainteed Solaris Landmark is a tad better? Or not?

 

[Slyfox]

It could be the rep's company purchased a bulk amount of a certain item also.
We had a local lumber yard go out of business last year and they had 100's of squares of Tamko that sold to other distributors at a big time savings,
so for a three month period or so everyone was using Tamko.

I still would avoid any roofer who refuses to sell any shingle,
and would also avoid any roofer who refuses to guarantee his/her work because you won't use the shingle they want you to.

There are codes that all shingle manufacturers have to meet on their shingles, thus properly installed they will meet the manufacturers expected life span unless there's a material defect which happens from time to time with every shingle manufacturer.

I am not listed with any shingle manufacturer, I could be, but choose not to because I won't limit myself to only selling/promoting one brand, but I can still purchase any shingle you wish.

Ask the other roofers to find a local distributor of the shingle you want.

As far as guarantee's on workmanship, don't allow that to play a part in your decision making, manufacturers don't offer a life time warranty and they make 100's of millions a year on their sales.
Manufacturers offer 100% coverage on their material for roughly one year,
than the % drops every year there after, so if you find out in 1 year your materials were defected they will cover the cost of re-roofing, assuming it's proven to not be a workmanship or act of nature problem.
If you don't find out until 10 years from now you'll be lucky to get pennies on the dollar.

 

[johnk]

You got me there MJW.I haven't had a chance to check out the Solaris yet.In fact I'm not familiar with that line at all.I know the Legacy is an awesome shingle and Malarkey will match any existing manufacturer warranty available.I know Certainteed prices have sky rocketed out my way,but Malarkeys are always a bit more.A 30 yr Malarkey is same price here as a Lifetime Timberline.I have no beef with Certainteed though,just prefer Malarkeys.Noticed you signed up at Nrg,we'll see you there as well.Take care

 

[Dodah]

Wow, everyone here has been really helpful. I realize that installation is very important but so is a good shingle to begin with. I appreciate the opinions as well as the input re why this particular roofing rep is "blowing me off" as someone so aptly put it.

If there's something wrong w/the shingle, I agree w/the one commentator who said that the rep can say so in a dignified way. Another roofer we met was pretty open about the various shingles he sold in terms of how they compared to each other and why there was a certain brand it was better to avoid in our particular situation. Maybe this would have violated his agreement to carry that shingle, but I'm not going to report someone who appears to be looking out for my interest. That said, the company shingle recommended by that roofer is from a company that I've learned since (from Internet research) had a huge class action suit settled a couple years ago. I'll start a new topic post to ask if this company treats its customers well, since that's a worry of me re their shingle, instead of getting off course here.

But it is disconcerting to say the least to deal w/a company that just won't budge re quoting on anything else. Their quote had the shingle they seem to want me to buy, plus another $5K higher that they probably figured I wouldn't want to buy, but not enough reasons why I should be impressed with their IKO shingle vs. others they carry such as Tamko, GAF/ELF, etc. Seems pretty pushy and strikes me as being a bit unethical although I can't put my finger on why. If the guy just doesn't think the shingles I'm curious about are right for whatever reason, all he has to do is say so, even if it's in a subtle off-the-record type way.

 

[MJW]

I don't care what anyone says, I won't sell a 20 year CRC shingle from Menards to a Homeowner knowing they will fly off. You have to admit there are areas that you shouldn't use certain materials.

A guarantee is rather important when competing with storm chasers and slouch companies.

We are on the Certainteed list, but we are not exclusive and you don't have to be. It's just good knowledge that every roofer should know.