Picture/s?!?
What's the pitch/slope of the roof?
Two different colors of shingles?!? -
Not!
What's the pitch/slope of the roof?
Two different colors of shingles?!? -
Not!
Roof help
Hi All,
I recently had a new roof installed. We thought that everything was done properly until a tree hit the roof when Hurricane Sandy came through. We had damage that the inspector saw and the insurance company agreed was because the tree hit. Then because they gave us so little to fix it we had to wait until our roofer could find the time to come back and do the work. Meanwhile the roof started leaking. We called the insurance company and they sent the inspector back and we were told the roofer was at fault because he should have laid a flat roof or had the whole roof covered with an ice and water shield b/c of the pitch. So now we spoke with the roofer who said that he would do the work for us at cost. Yesterday he came and ripped up that part of the roof. He then re-shingled with the wrong color architectural shingles. So now I have the front of my house the proper color which is natural timber and the back dormer is barkwood shingles. My contractor was not going to do anything because he said no one would notice. I protested and his compromise is to lay the natural timber shingles over the barkwood shingles. My question is should this be done?
I recently had a new roof installed. We thought that everything was done properly until a tree hit the roof when Hurricane Sandy came through. We had damage that the inspector saw and the insurance company agreed was because the tree hit. Then because they gave us so little to fix it we had to wait until our roofer could find the time to come back and do the work. Meanwhile the roof started leaking. We called the insurance company and they sent the inspector back and we were told the roofer was at fault because he should have laid a flat roof or had the whole roof covered with an ice and water shield b/c of the pitch. So now we spoke with the roofer who said that he would do the work for us at cost. Yesterday he came and ripped up that part of the roof. He then re-shingled with the wrong color architectural shingles. So now I have the front of my house the proper color which is natural timber and the back dormer is barkwood shingles. My contractor was not going to do anything because he said no one would notice. I protested and his compromise is to lay the natural timber shingles over the barkwood shingles. My question is should this be done?
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Architectural shingles should not be used below 4/12. This has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum. Please check my other posts re slope for asphalt shingles.
Your roofer is a schmuck.
Your roofer is a schmuck.
This is why they have small claim courts. Do not Threaten him, Promise him.
This site is always quick to jump on the roofer when instead, I ask questions.
Was this a legitimate company? Was it the lowest price? Was there a more expensive option in the quote for low slope materials? How do you know the building inspector is right?
The color thing was a boneheaded mistake.
Shingles can be installed on as low as a 2/12.
Was this a legitimate company? Was it the lowest price? Was there a more expensive option in the quote for low slope materials? How do you know the building inspector is right?
The color thing was a boneheaded mistake.
Shingles can be installed on as low as a 2/12.
Sounds like he had some left over from down the street.
Yes, Three tab shingles can be installed at 2/12 with full ice dams and reduced exposure, but the Handbook of Accepted Roofing Knowledge, which has been developed with over two hundred years of experience by roofing contractors throughout the USA says:
Steep roofing stops at 3/12
And low slope roofing is from 0 to 3/12
There is a very good chance that a shingle roof installed in standard configuration at 2/12 will leak in windy conditions or when snow drifts on the roof.
Why would anyone ignore 200 years of hard earned knowledge?
Your shed? Sure, who cares if the tractor gets wet once or twice.
Over your Steinway Grand Piano? I dont think so.
But your other point is well taken Paragon, we are only hearing one side, right up till the guy used a different shingle and said "Dont worry about it, you cant see it" He should see it on his way home in his truck.
Steep roofing stops at 3/12
And low slope roofing is from 0 to 3/12
There is a very good chance that a shingle roof installed in standard configuration at 2/12 will leak in windy conditions or when snow drifts on the roof.
Why would anyone ignore 200 years of hard earned knowledge?
Your shed? Sure, who cares if the tractor gets wet once or twice.
Over your Steinway Grand Piano? I dont think so.
But your other point is well taken Paragon, we are only hearing one side, right up till the guy used a different shingle and said "Dont worry about it, you cant see it" He should see it on his way home in his truck.
Well dimensionals can be installed as low as 2/12 pitch nowadays but I do agree with the comment about he should've been gone after he said no one can see it, however if the guy did it for insurance proceeds, he already lost money.
So,,Its safe to say that your "Roofer guy" knew it was an insurance claim ? Every insurance claim I have ever worked specifically mentions the use of "Same kind" "Likeness" or other words that mean "Same as existing"
So my next question is what material was existing ? The proper materials for the slope ? Even though you might have had shingles there is a thing called "Per code".That means to comply with local building codes and laws/restrictions.But before assuming what I say is true look at your policy to confirm.
So my next question pertains to the color.How on earth was the color choice messed up by the contractor ? Who made the decision to order the wrong color Did the contractor even look at the existing color before ordering ?
And to "Compromise" by adding another layer on a roof that is too low for shingles then the shingles being the wrong color is insane.
The only "Compromise" you should accept and agree to is this and only this;
1.Tear the roof off.
2.Install the proper roof system for the slope and to comply with shingle manufacture requirements.
3.Install the correct color of said proper slope roof system.
So my next question is what material was existing ? The proper materials for the slope ? Even though you might have had shingles there is a thing called "Per code".That means to comply with local building codes and laws/restrictions.But before assuming what I say is true look at your policy to confirm.
So my next question pertains to the color.How on earth was the color choice messed up by the contractor ? Who made the decision to order the wrong color Did the contractor even look at the existing color before ordering ?
And to "Compromise" by adding another layer on a roof that is too low for shingles then the shingles being the wrong color is insane.
The only "Compromise" you should accept and agree to is this and only this;
1.Tear the roof off.
2.Install the proper roof system for the slope and to comply with shingle manufacture requirements.
3.Install the correct color of said proper slope roof system.
How many lawyers does it take to shingle a roof?
Depends on how thin you slice them.
Sorry I could not help myself.
Depends on how thin you slice them.
Sorry I could not help myself.
Lots of good advice, but roofmaster said it best:
Tear it off and install the right product that is correct for the application and matches.
If they guy can't make any money on the job, then he shouldn't have taken it at that price. I think its safe to say that most of us have learned that lesson the hard way at some point...
Tear it off and install the right product that is correct for the application and matches.
If they guy can't make any money on the job, then he shouldn't have taken it at that price. I think its safe to say that most of us have learned that lesson the hard way at some point...
Paragon, What is a "Dimensional"? In my neck of the woods, there are three tabs, Architectural, and maybe Hurricane shingles. What are "Dimensionals"
And why would you subject yourself to doing something that WILL, not IF land you in court against somebody like me?
You are absolutely correct, anything can be done, but that does not mean that you should do it, as a professional.
And why would you subject yourself to doing something that WILL, not IF land you in court against somebody like me?
You are absolutely correct, anything can be done, but that does not mean that you should do it, as a professional.
Okay even though I am sure you know what I meant by dimensional, I'll change it to architectural.jagans said:Paragon, What is a "Dimensional"? In my neck of the woods, there are three tabs, Architectural, and maybe Hurricane shingles. What are "Dimensionals"
And why would you subject yourself to doing something that WILL, not IF land you in court against somebody like me?
You are absolutely correct, anything can be done, but that does not mean that you should do it, as a professional.
You wouldn't end up in court against me. You would end up in court against the largest manufacturers in the world because everything is installed to their specifications.
I'm not saying we do install shingles on that low of a slope, just saying you can according to the manufacturers.
Actually no, I thought they may have come out with something new called dimensional, and I wanted to know if that was thee case.
Yes I'm sure the manufacturers say you can go to 2/12. I am also sure, without even looking that they have a caveat in there to relinquish them of responsibility due to unusual or local conditions. They have pretty good lawyers.
My advice to you, for what its worth, is to do what the NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual says, because they are not selling shingles.
Yes I'm sure the manufacturers say you can go to 2/12. I am also sure, without even looking that they have a caveat in there to relinquish them of responsibility due to unusual or local conditions. They have pretty good lawyers.
My advice to you, for what its worth, is to do what the NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual says, because they are not selling shingles.
In Paragon's defense, we do call them dimensionals up here.. In fact, most people call them "3-dimensionals":laughing: :yes:
Only time I see them called architectural is on this here inter-web...
We shingle low-slopes on occasion, but only with ice and water under the entire thing and with a disclaimer on the contract that it is not the recommended procedure, blah, blah, legal disclaimers and stuff.
Only time I see them called architectural is on this here inter-web...
We shingle low-slopes on occasion, but only with ice and water under the entire thing and with a disclaimer on the contract that it is not the recommended procedure, blah, blah, legal disclaimers and stuff.
Got ya, a colloquialism. Just what roofing needs, more confusion :thumbup:
Like in the Civil war. (Like there is anything Civil about War) The battle of Antietam is the battle of Sharpsburg in the South, because The South went by towns and the north went by rivers. Arrruuunghhhh!
Like in the Civil war. (Like there is anything Civil about War) The battle of Antietam is the battle of Sharpsburg in the South, because The South went by towns and the north went by rivers. Arrruuunghhhh!
This will be my last post on the slope/shingle issue, but it has been my experience that in a court of law, the liability usually falls on the most knowledgeable. In the case of most residential roofs, this would in most cases be the one making the proposal, as by doing so, you have become the designer of record. Attempting to relinquish responsibility for your own design doesn't work in court of law.
Or as my friend Joe Hale from SC would say "That dog don't hunt"
The homeowner is always considered to be the poor, ignorant, uninformed victim. And they usually are.
Or as my friend Joe Hale from SC would say "That dog don't hunt"
The homeowner is always considered to be the poor, ignorant, uninformed victim. And they usually are.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
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