[loboesso]

Hi everyone,

Sorry if I am asking an old question, but i did not see it when I did a search, I am trying to rewire and old chandelier for a friend of mine and when I wanted to re-wire the cables, I noticed this white cement? that glue the light bulb base I started to drill them in order to make room for the new cables to pass through, My assumption is that, this white sutff is to glue the lamp base to the chandelier but not sure


Any tips on how to run the wires through?
Is it ok to drill/chisel this stuff out to make room for the wire to pass?

thanks in advanced

 

[Wirenuting]

That appears to be porcelain your drilling thru.
I would remove the wire from the post. If you can not pull it thru, cut it flush.
Then slowly dril it out with a mason bit. Be very careful or the porcelain will shatter.

Remember that when you rewire that socket, the "Hot", "Switched" conductor goes to the screw that feeds the post down inside the shell.
The neutral conductor, "nonswitched", connected to the sockets outside shell.

 

[ddawg16]

I agree with nutjob....I mean Wirenutting (sorry, just having some fun)

In the old days they used porcelain as an insulator....and it works quite well.

 

[Wirenuting]

I agree with nutjob....I mean Wirenutting (sorry, just having some fun)

In the old days they used porcelain as an insulator....and it works quite well.

I've always seen them pressed into place, the porcelain into the decorative holder. If his was glued do you think acid tone or WD40 would break the porcelain free?

 

[de-nagorg]

If that is porcelain, Chances are that a bath in C L R will cause it to deteriorate enough to remove it.

After all porcelain is a limestone based material that has been fired.

And I know that vinegar will destroy any china (porcelain) that has a chip or crack.


ED

 

[ddawg16]

The vinegar is worth a try. I'd be interested in the outcome.

Though....I'm not sure what it would do to the metal.

 

[de-nagorg]

Grandma used to run a vinegar solution through her old metal coffee pot, to clean out the gunk that accumulated in it.


ED

 

[al_smelter]

If it is actually porcelain, it was inserted after firing (bronze melts at 1742 F, Porcelain fires at around 2550F). Most likely it was a castable cement like material that was poured in and air dried.

I would normally opt for a mechanical means to remove this material. Some chemicals may also "melt" the stuff away. However, if you use chemicals, try to avoid solutions that contain chlorides, which can damage bronze. If you do use a chloride based solution, make sure to flood the area with water when finished and dry thoroughly.

 

[loboesso]

Thanks guys, I probably will use some mechanical ways like you guys said..It is not mine and I don't want to destroy the bronze. Another question that I have is:

If it happens that the porcelain is shatter, what can I used as a substitute insulator?

thanks again!!

 

[de-nagorg]

A rubber cork from a chemistry set, or might find one at a decent hardware store.


ED

 

[al_smelter]

There are literally hundreds of potting compounds that are suitable for your use. Simply Google "electrical potting compound" and wade through the lists for consistencies you want or similarities to what you have.

If it doesn't need electrical insulating properties, simple plaster of paris is a quick and easy mounting material.

 

[FrodoOne]

There are literally hundreds of potting compounds that are suitable for your use. Simply Google "electrical potting compound" and wade through the lists for consistencies you want or similarities to what you have.

If it doesn't need electrical insulating properties, simple plaster of paris is a quick and easy mounting material.

From the only photo so far posted - considering that a conductor in a Black insulated wire appears to be connected to the metal support structure held in place inside the "bronze" fitting by the white ceramic/cement substance (and to a "lug" from the outside "shell" ?) - I strongly suggest that any replacement substance DOES "need electrical insulating properties".

 

[gregzoll]

You can use heat resistant RTV or White Silicon. Use a Dremel on low speed to drill holes in that to be able to breaks it out with an ice pick.

Just be careful when you do it, since that mix holds the rods for the light base.

 

[al_smelter]

If you decide to use a silicone (I would not recommend it), be sure it is not a formula that produces acetic acid during its cure. If it smells kind of like "vinegar", it probably off gasses acetic acid, which is corrosive to cast bronze (it is also an ingredient used to patina brass and bronze) and copper. The link below is a chemical compatibility chart:

http://www.quickcutgasket.com/pdf/Chemical-Resistance-Chart.pdf

Most cheap RTV's in the big box stores are actually incompatible with most metals, though the average consumer is unaware, or does not care. But for antique restoration, using the correct materials is advantageous to the longevity of the repair and the base metals.

 

[loboesso]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the tips, I was able to get the wires out, by drilling with small drill bit and chiseling with small nail. I only drill around the hole where the wires goes through. I believe that should be good. With that I have some questions.

Can I get the wire in Lowes/Homedepot store? I believe the wire is like an 18 ga.

Do I have to insulate once I install the wire? The more I think about, I think I should since the arms of the Chandelier tend to move, which eventually can start cutting through the insulation.

What are your thought thanks?

 

[ddawg16]

I would not use 18g....I'd go 16awg.

Get 16g THHN/THWN wire. I'm assuming the other end will be wire nutted.

How much movement? This well determine if you want solid or stranded. If it's a lot of movement, the solid will eventually break. If you use stranded, then you need to use crimp on eyelet connectors at the Edison socket.

 

[loboesso]

I would not use 18g....I'd go 16awg.

Get 16g THHN/THWN wire. I'm assuming the other end will be wire nutted.

How much movement? This well determine if you want solid or stranded. If it's a lot of movement, the solid will eventually break. If you use stranded, then you need to use crimp on eyelet connectors at the Edison socket.

The arms move a little bit, but they shouldnt, maybe only during cleaning. I dont think 16ga will be able to fit through a 1/8 hole. maybe a buy a little and see if a can fit it through

Stranded is not a bad idea..

thanks

 

[loboesso]

Finally finished!!

Thanks for all your help, I end up putting lamp wire 18g/2: Everything was tested for continuity properly.

The what kind of paint you used to paint the wires?

What a pain in the **** cleaning the chandelier!

 

[de-nagorg]

A product like TARN-X should have cleaned the brass easy enough, but I do not know how much patina was on it.

It looks great,

tough to see laying sideways though, sure wish that they would fix that feature on this site.


ED

 

[gregzoll]

It turned out really nice. I would leave the wiring alone, since paint can cause them to heat and dry up.

Was there any type of globe or shade that was on them?

If you do any bulbs. Go with the old fashioned Edison Style/Vintage Antique light bulbs.