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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am replacing the floor and vanity in our main bathroom in a house built in 1963. I have removed most of the floor tiles and the mud bed looks like it is in decent shape. There are a few cracks, but nothing major and none of them run all the way across the room. None of the existing floor tiles were cracked. I've seen other posts that say it is ok to install new tiles over the existing bed with just thin set as long as it is in good shape. Would it be appropriate to do it in my case? I will be installing 12" x 12" porcelain tiles. See pictures below.






My other concern is the size of the area for the vanity. The old vanity base was 18" x 62" and the new one is 21" x 60". I plan to set the new vanity on top of the tiles opposed to on the subfloor like the old one. My main concern is how to build up the ~2" gap I will have on the left side of the vanity and tile over it. Any suggestions?



 

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That old "mud bed' needs to be pulled out. It's not the "mud bed' that you have read about tiling over,

from the 1800s till about 1930 the floor joists were dropped and a 3 to 4 inch bed of concrete was installed--that was fine to tile over. Yours is not.

To prepare that for tile--remove every thing down to the 1x6 ship sheeting--add 1/2" or thicker b/c plywood exterior glue(exposure 1) then add 1/4" Durrock or Wonder board set in thinset and nailed or screwed.

If you come back with your floor joist size--spacing and unsupported length,one of us will check the deflection chart for you.---Mike----
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the clarification, Mike. For my information, if this isn't a "mud bed", what would you call it?

My floor joists are 2x10s spaced at 16" oc. The distance between the load bearing wall in the basement and the exterior wall is 11 feet.
 

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Your deflection is excellent( 687---360 is good for tile--720 for natural stone)

That is called a Jersey mud set---wire mesh with a thin layer of mortar---popular years ago but no longer a method deemed acceptable by TCNA or any of the other tile associations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Great! Thanks!

I plan on posting pictures of my progress on this project and I'm sure I will have more questions. Is it better to keep one thread for one project or to start a new thread for unrelated questions on the same project?
 

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Keep every thing in one thread----that keeps everything in context and often folks will have threads marked so we get an alert when there is new activity on a thread.

People love pictures--that always gets extra attention.

There are several tile pros here and countless experienced DIYers that will find your project interesting.-----Have fun--Mike---
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Got it. I ripped up the Jersey mud job and am off to pick up 1/2" exposure 1 plywood and 1/4" backer board. I screw the plywood into the subfloor and not the joists, correct? How should the screws be spaced?

I'm assuming I should not hit the joists when installing the backer board either. I plan to use the cheap CustomBlend thinset from HD to set the backer board.
 

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First screw any of the 1x6 s that are not tight---ply gets screwed about every 7 inches--3 or 4 inches at the edges.

You are fine with the inexpensive thinset under the backer board---backer can be screwed with Rock on screws or 1 1/2" hot dipped roofing nails.

I prefer Durrock or Wonder Board over Hardibacker---your choice---Mike---
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
New development. I was leaning on the edge of the bathtub while doing some cleanup and the corner dropped about 3/4". It looks like there were shims along the edge of the tub that were probably moved when I was tearing up the old thinset and wire mesh. The one on the right side is still holding up the tub (barely), but the one in the middle and on the left side are pushed back underneath the edge the tub. The bathtub was the only thing in the bathroom I was planning on leaving untouched. Can I just move the shims back into place and be ok or am I in bigger trouble here?

Side note...it looks like there is some mold on the subfloor (drywall in the picture will be removed). Is it acceptable to give it a quick bleach cleaning and cover it up?

Left side:


Right side:


Shim on right side:


Middle shim pushed under tub (I pried up the edge of the tub to see it):


Drop:
 

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Make up some new shims---Glue them in this time---

By the way,a Kohler Villager cast iron tub is $380 a drain set another $50 to $70---

Be kind of nice to say you have a completely new bath room.:whistling2::laughing:






By the time this bath is done you're going to hate me.:laughing:--Mike---
 

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Oh,the mildew--if the wood is solid--wash it with bleach water---
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thank you again, Mike. You're practically running this project at this point!

A new bathtub is tempting, but we're trying to do this on a tight budget. That being said, I think we'll still end up eventually paying $400 to have the existing tub professionally refinished. I've gone back and forth on this decision a million times, but I think I've ended on refinishing. The company offers a five year warranty and we will be out of the house by then, so it fits our needs. That, and I don't feel like figuring out how to install a 400 lb bathtub.

Progress was slow today...mostly because I spent nearly 3 hours at HD picking up a variety of things. I'm now about 95% complete with demo. I left the existing drywall up everywhere except for around the tub because I plan on covering it with wainscoting.



I had intended on getting started on some minor plumbing modifications tomorrow, but I'm starting to think I should pull a permit. I need to move the supply lines and drain for the sink about 18" to the right and install a new mixing valve for the shower.





Since I won't be able to talk to anyone about a permit until Tuesday, I'm planning to measure and cut the plywood and backer board for the floor. Before I get started, I have a question about the toilet flange. Should I cut the plywood and the backerboard to hug the outer diameter of the pipe under the flange? The bottom of the flange is almost 3/4" from the subfloor, which means I might not be able to squeeze the backer board underneath it. How should I handle this?



One more question - do I need to do anything special bringing the plywood and backer board up to the bathtub? I was planning on just coming up about flush with the outer face and leaving a gap on the ends where it gets narrower. Now that I think about it, the shims are 3/4" tall, so maybe I could just sneak in the plywood and backer board under the edge of the tub about an inch or so in place of the shims. Bad idea?

 

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Got a Jig Saw:)? I'd scribe a line off the tub to get a tight fit. If you can go underneath I suppose that'd work to.

FYI, I'm not sure where in MN you are, but in Minneapolis they charge double for the permit if you've started work already(demo counts).
 

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I'd tuck the 1/2 " subfloor under the toilet flange---add shimming and screw the flange to that--then rock around the flange.

When you get to the tub---either tuck the subfloor under the lip of the tub or come as close as you can to the face of the tub----When thinsetting the backer board---push thinset under the tub edge,that will help stabilize the tub.


I see that you have copper piping---good news there!

A very common oversight--the electrical outlet for the vanity might need to be raised if you use a taller vanity----good luck,mike--
 

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You should replace the shower controls with a pressure balanced set and move it up higher on the wall. I put them solar plexus high.
Refinishing the current tub will be a mistake you will hate yourself for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Alright, now you guys have me thinking about a new tub. The main reason we wanted to keep our current one is that it is a little narrower (28 3/4" wide in the middle and even less on the sides), which gives us a more space in the bathroom. The drain is also at 13 1/4" from the wall. Will this even fit up with a new 30" x 60" bathtub? How much work would it be to move all of the plumbing a couple inches?

Our current tub is actually in pretty good shape, except for the base is rough from being cleaned with abrasive cleaners and it really attracts dirt. If we could take care of this issue, we would probably just keep the tub and skip the refinishing.
 

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The only reason we are poking you a bit is that the refinishing doesn't hold up well---so fragile in fact that I will not work in a bathroom with a refinished tub.

With a good helper I can have an old tub out in about an hour and the new one in in about two hours more.--depending on what condition the old plumbing is in.

It's your house---I like to do a completely new bathroom----but that's me.

Tub replacement is quite the mystery the first time---after that it's rather routine.---Mike----

I build bathrooms a lot--17 last year---only 4 so far this year.(although one was 360 sf)----Mike----
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well I made the decision to keep the existing bathtub and have been moving along...slowly. Progress was nearly zero for two weeks due to evening classes and a 3 day family reunion. My cousin was able to help me with the new shower valve and moving the sink, so I'm finally to the point where I can start rebuilding. On to the questions...

What would be the best way to finish this corner where the drywall and tile meet? I plan to tile all the way to the edge with bullnose tile, but I'm not sure how exactly that corner will work out yet (first time tiling - anything). As you can see I cut out about four feet of the metal corner strip because it was all corroded and I have a new piece ready to put in. What is the best way to handle an outside corner where drywall and tile meet?



On other thing....will it be a big deal if I don't have my "Backer-On" screws absolutely flush? I'm having a helluva time getting them all the way in there. btw, I plan to use Redgard for waterproofing.

 

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Let's start with the tile and the outside corner.

The bull nose goes right to the edge--then the tile starts--Let's hope the outside corner is plumb or you will have to do some 'fudgeing' to correct that .

Get the backer screws flush,even if you must bang them in with a hammer.

You need a flat wall.

When you have your tile and caps on site you will do a layout to give you the best looking wall possible.

Let us know if you are going all the way to the ceiling or stopping below with a row of caps.
 
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