[MsKitty32]

We have a 1950's home. The wiring does not include a ground wire. It is wiring covered in cloth.

We want to replace the old two prong outlets w/ GFCIs. My original desire was to replace each receptacle w/ a GFCI. I realize one GFCI can cover the rest of the receptacles on the circuit if placed at the first receptacle in the circuit. I figured trying to figure out the first receptacle on each circuit is going to be a pain hence my desire for a GFCI for each receptacle plus each one is covered individually.

The receptacles, as they are now, are daisy-chained. The GFCI receptacles we are using are the Leviton X7599 Smartlock Pro Slim Design, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0048WPV4Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00, since we have the old small metal receptacle boxes.

If we daisy-chain these GFCI's then if there is an issue in the circuit at one GFCI ALL other GFCI's further down in the circuit will stop working as well, correct?

If we don't daisy-chain these GFCI receptacles our other choice is using the back-stab method for the line and load wires at the same terminals or pig-tailing, correct? I've read that there are some serious back-stab haters. I'm not an electrician so I don't know which is better. My issue with pig-tailing is we may not have, pretty sure we don't, enough room in the receptacle box to use wire-nuts or lever-nuts to pig-tail, unless there is another way around this that I don't know of?

 

[Jim Port]

A gfi does not use backstabs. They use back wired clamps and are very secure.

If the gfi is only wired from the line side it will only protect at the point of use and nothing downstream.

You could install a gfi breaker and protect the entire circuit and not have to worry about the small boxes.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I would attempt to find the first receptacle in each circuit and replace only those with GFCI receptacles. You'll save yourself a lot of money that way.

If you cannot determine the first receptacle in each circuit, or don't want to, I would just install GFCI breakers, which would probably be cheaper than making every single receptacle a GFCI.

If the existing boxes are too small, I would consider taking them out and replacing them with plastic boxes.

 

[Tom738]

All of the outlets with a third prong on a two-wire circuit need to be labelled "No Equipment Ground."

 

[MsKitty32]

Jim: What are back-wired clamps? I know the GFCI Leviton we have you can slide the bare wire in a slot next to the terminal screw - I thought that was back-stab?

If we decide to have the GFCI Circuit Breakers put in instead can I still change the receptacles to three prong receptacles w/ labels for No Equipment Ground? The receptacles we have now are two-prong and painted over/nasty and need to be replaced even if we decide to do GFCI Circuit Breakers. Also, how do I wire the new 3 prong receptacles - is daisy-chain, the way they are now, fine? Pig-tail? Back-stab?

 

[joed]

Back stab you push the wire in and it is done.
Back wired you push the wire in and THEN tighten the screw to clamp the wire.

 

[Jim Port]

If you look at the gfi you will see a plate that tightens and hold the wires. The wire does not go under the screw head.

 

[jeffnc]

Jim: What are back-wired clamps? I know the GFCI Leviton we have you can slide the bare wire in a slot next to the terminal screw - I thought that was back-stab?

No. This is secure and fine.

I was just in a customer's home and he had replaced his own garbage disposal because it stopped working. New one didn't work either. I tested the incoming, and no power. Tested the power switch. Backstabbed (real backstab). Backstab connection had failed. Rewired to terminal screws, and all is fine.

 

[poiihy]

No. This is secure and fine.

I was just in a customer's home and he had replaced his own garbage disposal because it stopped working. New one didn't work either. I tested the incoming, and no power. Tested the power switch. Backstabbed (real backstab). Backstab connection had failed. Rewired to terminal screws, and all is fine.

Argh, I hate it when people replace random parts when it stops working, when the part(s) weren't the problem. They should test the power first! What a waste of a perfectly good garbage disposer.

 

[jeffnc]

It wasn't totally wasted - I bought the used one from them.

 

[MsKitty32]

I still need a bit of help.

If we decide to have the GFCI Circuit Breakers put in can I still change the receptacles to three prong receptacles w/ labels for No Equipment Ground? The receptacles we have now are two-prong and painted over/nasty and need to be replaced.

Also, how do I wire the new 3 prong receptacles - is daisy-chain, the way they are now, fine? Pig-tail? Back-stab?

And, is it possible to change the old small metal boxes to the bigger box without damaging the drywall? Plastic boxes?

 

[joed]

With GFCI breakers you can replace the receptacles with three prong.
Do not use the back stabs. They are known failure point.

 

[rjgogo]

Are you sure you don't have a ground? In some places like Chicago the rigid steel conduit served as the ground. If that is the case, replacing the metal boxes with plastic would sever that connection.

 

[Oso954]

All of the outlets with a third prong on a two-wire circuit need to be labelled "No Equipment Ground."

The receptacles actually need both labels, "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground". If the protection is a GFCI receptacle, it needs the "No Equipment Ground" label.

 

[MsKitty32]

Are you sure you don't have a ground? In some places like Chicago the rigid steel conduit served as the ground. If that is the case, replacing the metal boxes with plastic would sever that connection.

I have noticed that there is a metal wire hooked to the conduit from the area at the back of the conduit where the electric wires come in. I can't remember if all of the outlets we have looked at have this.

If we don't replace the conduits I don't see pig-tailing (which I've read is better than back-stab and daisy-chain) happening due to the limited space.

 

[MsKitty32]

With GFCI breakers you can replace the receptacles with three prong.
Do not use the back stabs. They are known failure point.

Pig-tail? Daisy-chain?

 

[Jim Port]

Either would work.