[IronArm]

Hello,

I have a 2x4 post at the foot of my basement stairs. I imagine it only has a small load on it, since it's a single 2x4 on a brick. Wondering if it could be replaced with a joist hanger? Disregard the plumbing that's near the top of it. It's just joists perpendicular to each other. I'm putting new stairs in, and would love to get rid of it.

http://jumpgoat.com/post1.jpg
http://jumpgoat.com/post2.jpg

 

[Nealtw]

From what we can see, it looks like yes.

 

[carpdad]

Assuming those ceiling joists resting on the foundation are coming from a house beam, I think you can remove the 2x4 as long as there's no load bearing post or such above the 2x4 corner. Bsmt ceiling framing looks like they were doubled and such for the loads but maybe the floor became little bouncy. Don't know if you can, but you can add extra joist to that double joist to take the bounce out.

 

[IronArm]

Yes, there's an i-beam running the full length of the bungalow that the other end of the joists rest on.
"as there's no load bearing post or such above the 2x4 corner." You mean upstairs I assume? I don't think so. Above is the back right corner of my en suite (see pics). If I remove it, maybe add a joist hanger for good measure?

 

[Nealtw]

You want a hanger there for sure and while you are at it put hangers on all those joists the run into that same double.

 

[IronArm]

Thanks Neal
carpdad, I posted a couple extra pics. Do you still think it's ok to remove?

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks Neal
carpdad, I posted a couple extra pics. Do you still think it's ok to remove?

You will have to get into that white box to that hanger but you are missing a bunch of single and double hangers. You should check the whole basement.

 

[carpdad]

I'm seeing a water pipe above the 2x4 and it looks like the stairwell beam was notched because of the pipe. So maybe the plumber (or the home owner) thought extra support is called for? The notch is close to where that beam is connected to the double floor joist and the notch isn't too deep. Some notching is allowed. Search for diagrams of where and how joists can be notched and holes drilled. I think (not 100% sure not being an engineer or such) that 2x4 can be removed. Remove it and get the family together and jump up and down on the spot from above. If bouncy or you look at the notch (bright light) and see if anything is happening, such as a beginning of a split, splinter or movement. I think, as a diy, it will be fine.


There are sheet metal plates sold to repair joist damages. You can also get 1/8 or 1/4 steel plate (does not have to be full joist width), 3' or so, have holes drilled and lag bolt to that beam. But that may be going overboard. In addition to the joist hangers, reinforcements are good things.

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks Neal
carpdad, I posted a couple extra pics. Do you still think it's ok to remove?

Never let a framer look at the framing.:biggrin2:
When you don't have hangers some will argure that you would have to break the sub floor for it to fail . But see the join where I have #1 not onley is it close to the header so no support added and is has a direction change.

it should have been solid block like where I have #2 but that one isn't doing anything.

See how lose the fit is at #3 where that double would be able to move a bit working at the nails holding it in place.



I have marked the #4 where I can see water stains, on a bad day with a finished basement that could be rot just waiting for the right number of people stand over that double.

 

[IronArm]

You will have to get into that white box to that hanger but you are missing a bunch of single and double hangers. You should check the whole basement.

Neal, the house was built in 1961, maybe they didn't use hangers then?

carpdad, the joist is actually not notched. That pipe is right next to the 2x8, but not actually touching. The black is scorching from a torch when they were doing the brass. I'm pretty sure that post is original. There was once a platform at the top of the stairs. They removed it and added 2 more steps. The posts for the platform have been removed, but the bricks are still there. I removed one of the bricks because it was in the way of a bottom plate I installed. There was gravel under the brick, because it was taking a load. But I don't think the brick under the post I want to remove has gravel under it. There's no bulge in concrete floor like the other bricks. I suppose I need consult an engineer to be 100%.

 

[Nealtw]

Neal, the house was built in 1961, maybe they didn't use hangers then?

carpdad, the joist is actually not notched. That pipe is right next to the 2x8, but not actually touching. The black is scorching from a torch when they were doing the brass. I'm pretty sure that post is original. There was once a platform at the top of the stairs. They removed it and added 2 more steps. The posts for the platform have been removed, but the bricks are still there. I removed one of the bricks because it was in the way of a bottom plate I installed. There was gravel under the brick, because it was taking a load. But I don't think the brick under the post I want to remove has gravel under it. There's no bulge in concrete floor like the other bricks. I suppose I need consult an engineer to be 100%.

Before they used hangers they used pressure blocks, you don't have those either. The bricks that were built on before the floor went in would indicate that they were point loads. But they should have been sitting on a footing not gravel.

 

[carpdad]

I looked at the photos again and I still think that stairwell double joist (long beam with 2 wood posts) is notched. It looks like a copper drain pipe and it's turning under the floor sheathing. The drywall box with 2 thinner tubes making Ls? Those should be hot and cold water going into the bathroom. That larger copper pipe should be also in that drywall box. To keep the copper drain under the sheathing, the plumber had to notch that beam. By notching, I don't mean the beam's width face. I mean the top edges. Notching a beam that way does compromise beam's carry capacity. But beam capacity isn't always compromised by size and where the notch is. If bath's corner is where 2x4 post is, what is above the bath? Do the bathroom walls carry anything above, attic, 2nd floor, roof? But the 2x4 and a brick suggests they don't serve much of anything.


If you're finishing the bsmt, make sure you don't drive screws into that drywall box, unless you open it and confirm where the copper pipes are. That corner bead is a suspect.

 

[IronArm]

You're right, it's notched at the top.
The bathtub is not directly above the post. It's about 6 feet away (see diagram). I'll actually be taking the bathtub out and replacing it with a shower pan. So, they'll never be the weight of a full bathtub. Yes, those are hot and cold pipes for the en suite vanity. And the other pipe must be the drain. Above the bathroom is the attic. The only load bearing walls are the outer walls that the trusses sit on. So, what your saying is normally that post wouldn't be necessary if the beam wasn't notched. But because its compromised slightly, they added the post. Wonder if I could reinforce it with some blocking

 

[IronArm]

I've done some research, and normally a post isn't necessary, but they added it because of the 2.75" notch. I'm wondering what my options are to reinforce the cross members so I can remove the post. If I rerouted the plumbing I could patch or even replace the joist. But that's a lot of work. I suppose I could add some blocking.

 

[sixeightten]

That 2x4 is there to provide something to attach a rail to.

 

[IronArm]

You think that's all it's for? You don't think it's because they notched the joists? That actually makes more sense. What could a single 2x4 do?

 

[Nealtw]

You think that's all it's for? You don't think it's because they notched the joists? That actually makes more sense. What could a single 2x4 do?

I think I agree a single 2x4 would never have been asked for there.

Just by location under the pipe it does look like something but there would be a footing below it and it would be at least 2 studs.

We would never be allowed to notch a beam like it looks like it is but you can still find where some notching is allowed in some places on a joist.

I think the 2x4 is more about the railing than support.