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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!

I have a Fleck 2510 64k grain water softener. I just got it installed maybe two or so months ago.

So far, things have been working great with it, but I wonder how many gallons of water are wasted through the regeneration cycle?

Another question is what happens during the regeneration cycle to the supply? Does the unit up top (control valve?) close off the portion that gets routed through the tank and operates in a "bypass" like mode?

Finally, I wondered how long the entire process takes. I thought I read in the manual about 3 hours. I imagine that during regen, it flushes the tank, sucks in the brine, lets it sit in the tank for awhile, flushes the tank, then fills the brine again.

Just looking to get some answers. Thanks!
 

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Wasted water? there is really no wasted water.. when you use a washing machine is the water wasted? no it is used for a reason ,, that is cleaning the laundry that is in it.
The softener goes through a number of steps in the cleaning or reg cycle.
For yours it is first Backwash.. X number of minutes at Y gallons per minute equals gallons for backwash.
Brine draw and slow rinse are part of the same cycle often 60 minutes give or take a few minutes either way at often .5gpm or minutes X .5 equals gallons for brine draw and slow rinse.
Rapid rinse.. again X minutes at Ygpm for packing the media down for next service cycle and then brine refill or water needed to make Z lbs of salt brine for next regen cycle.

Unless you have a special added piston standard valve piston will let you use water while the unit is in cleaning or regen cycle ,, untreated water but still water while it is cleaning.

Depending on pins and spaces for your timer wheel any where from 65 minutes up to 3 hours...
On timer wheel look for the last 2 pins and the number by the 2 last pins and that will tell you the minutes that the unit is using from start to finish of a regen or cleaning cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks

Thanks for the response. It's starting to make a little sense how it all works now. I never realized that there are programmable pins on the back side of the hour timer that you can set. I will probably never mess with these, but it's helping me fully understand how this works.

I have two more questions. The first one is more important than the other.

- Program Wheel. In the manual, it looks even though I have a Fleck 2510 that allows it to regen when x amount of gallons are used, the manual says it's a "3210 Timer". The "program wheel" is the one that has the "people" on it. In the manual, it's referred to only in the parts list section as the "People Label Set" program wheel.

Why are there people on the wheel, and how does it work? What can be set by using this program wheel, and how do you go about setting it? I can see gallons left, the people, then the hardness. But what does this all mean?

So, the above program wheel holds lots of question and mystery. Maybe it's just super simple, who knows, but I just haven't found much info on what mysteries the wheel hold.

The second part of the question is that while my water is softer, I'd like to make it softer yet. Can I adjust the system to make the water softer, and if so, how?

Thanks in advanced!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK. I took matters into my own hands. The manual that came with it didn't say much about the "people" dial. I did discover this other manual online...

http://www.abendrothwater.com/generator/assets/manuals/2510_service_manual.pdf

It talks about the people wheel and how to set it. Now, all it looks like it really does is change the gallons number by the white dot. So, essentially, is the people wheel just a simple equation that deals with the countdown 'till regeneration?

At the factory, it came set to 21k gallons before regeneration. I took my hardness ppm (425) / 17.1 = (24.853) grains per gallon.

So what I would do is set my people wheel for 2 people (wife and self) at the 25 mark on the gpg dial. This moves the white dot from the 21 to (maybe) 8 or 9-ish. Then I'm done?

If this is how it really works, it does make sense. It seems like when it regenerates, I have a nice soapy lather and everything is fine. It seems like when it gets down to around 10 or 9 on the dial, you can tell the soap doesn't lather as well. Upon regeneration, life is good again. With the new settings, the regeneration will happen at 9 instead of 21, which would be when I would start feeling it.

Just trying to get some advice... I think I almost have it, but just wanted to confirm.


Thanks!
 

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The capacity of your softener is determined by the amount of salt used to regenerate it. Use of 15 lbs of salt/cubic foot of resin (30 lbs for your unit) will give a capacity of 60,000 grains. With 2 people in the house using 60 gal/day 3,000 grains of capacity is used per day. In that case you would need to regenerate every 20 days--actually more like 19 because a reserve is needed to avoid running out of soft water.

Regenerating with 15 lb/cubic foot is not very salt efficient and resin should be regenerated approximately once per week so, assuming you have no iron in your water, you can get much better salt efficiency and prolong the life of your resin by regenerating with 8 lbs of salt, and setting the capacity to 21,000 grains.

You get 8 lbs of salt by knowing that 1 gallon of water dissolves 3 lbs of salt so you need to set the control to supply 2 2/3 gallons of water for the brine fill. There should be a sticker on the back of the valve that says BLFC and has a value--typically .125, .25, or .5. That number is the gallons per minute of water flow during brine fill so if yours is .25 you would set the brine fill for 11 minutes (with the pins on the back of the timer) to get 2.75 gallons of water and approximately 8 lbs of salt for the regeneration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
:confused1:

Thanks for the response, but there's a lot of content there that I have to try to understand. I think maybe initially what I got out of it is that I set the regeneration cycle from 21 days to 8 days. Days are measured by 60 gallons per person. Forget days though, because I think it's confusing me and just adding to it.

So, in reality, I changed it from 21k gallons to 8k gallons per regeneration cycle? I at least know that the regeneration cycle uses salt, so the idea behind it is that you want to space the regen cycles out as far as possible while still maintaing softened water.

During the 21k gallon setting, I checked the dial when I felt like the water was becoming hard. Not super hard, but just not soft. The dial showed 9k gallons left before regen. Just thinking out loud, wouldn't my goal be to have it do a regeneration at that time? So, by adjusting the dial from 21k to 12k, that should be sufficient to continue to have softened water be regenerated automatically, instead of having me run down there to do a manual regeneration.

I just found out about those pins / jumpers on the back, but I would rather not mess with those because they might be for people that REALLY know what they're doing. I guess my main concern is ensuring the softener is setup properly, using the least amount of water (wasted), the least amount of salt wasted, and the softest water.

Also a side-note. I have extremely hard water. One run of the dishwasher on the tap water (without the softener) will make white stains on all of the plasticware and bottles in the dishwasher. I showed my coworker and he didn't believe me until he saw it for himself.

Thanks again all for the responses, and one of these days, I'm going to be able to understand this thing.
 

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:confused1:

Thanks for the response, but there's a lot of content there that I have to try to understand. I think maybe initially what I got out of it is that I set the regeneration cycle from 21 days to 8 days. Days are measured by 60 gallons per person. Forget days though, because I think it's confusing me and just adding to it.

So, in reality, I changed it from 21k gallons to 8k gallons per regeneration cycle? I at least know that the regeneration cycle uses salt, so the idea behind it is that you want to space the regen cycles out as far as possible while still maintaing softened water.

During the 21k gallon setting, I checked the dial when I felt like the water was becoming hard. Not super hard, but just not soft. The dial showed 9k gallons left before regen. Just thinking out loud, wouldn't my goal be to have it do a regeneration at that time? So, by adjusting the dial from 21k to 12k, that should be sufficient to continue to have softened water be regenerated automatically, instead of having me run down there to do a manual regeneration.

I just found out about those pins / jumpers on the back, but I would rather not mess with those because they might be for people that REALLY know what they're doing. I guess my main concern is ensuring the softener is setup properly, using the least amount of water (wasted), the least amount of salt wasted, and the softest water.

Also a side-note. I have extremely hard water. One run of the dishwasher on the tap water (without the softener) will make white stains on all of the plasticware and bottles in the dishwasher. I showed my coworker and he didn't believe me until he saw it for himself.

Thanks again all for the responses, and one of these days, I'm going to be able to understand this thing.
You are trying to over think it.
Years ago the people count was used, but really no more today.
Your water has X for hardness, Y for iron.
If there is iron then that number is times 4 then add the hardness in grains to it.
Example.
1ppm Fe
8grains.
Comp hardness of 12grains.
If you have 36lbs of salt each time it cleans then you will get the 64k, now 12 in to the 64k is?
5300 gallons between cleanings or regen.
Again why was the 64k unit needed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's starting to make sense, and you are right, I tend to over-analyze things a bit. :laughing:

I got the 64k unit because that is what was recommended to me based on my results (425ppm hardness) and my needs. A large concern is that I just want to set it and forget it, and be futureproof. There's only two in the house now, but when we start to grow, I don't want to fool around upgrading the softener. So, that is why we went with the 64k unit.

As for salt usage, I could be wrong, but I don't think we're using 36lbs per regeneration. We have a 15x17x36, and I believe I put 240lbs of salt in it. We've had the softener installed for probably about 2.5 to 3 months, and we maybe went through less than a quarter of the salt so far, if that.

OH...wait a sec.. 240 / 8 = 30...SO, maybe we are using 36lbs per regen. Woops.



With all this aside, I suppose my original question, without all the equations involved, if I want softer water, do I just move the people dial so the white dot lines up with something a little lower than '21'?

Thanks, and thank you for helping me clear up this confusion. But you are right, I tend to make things more complicated for what they really are.
 

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:confused1:

I guess my main concern is ensuring the softener is setup properly, using the least amount of water (wasted), the least amount of salt wasted, and the softest water.
1. A properly set up softener will give soft water--only trace amounts of hardness remaining. There is no adjusting the "softness".

2. To ensure the softener is set up properly you need to know hardness and iron content (I am assuming 0 iron because you have not responded saying there is any). Next you want the softener to regenerate approximately once per week. To get that to happen you need to know how much water you use per day (typical is 60 gal/day/person). Then we adjust the salt used during regeneration to get the capacity used during 8 days (24,000 grains using your hardness figures and assuming no iron).
 

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It's starting to make sense, and you are right, I tend to over-analyze things a bit. :laughing:

I got the 64k unit because that is what was recommended to me based on my results (425ppm hardness) and my needs. A large concern is that I just want to set it and forget it, and be futureproof. There's only two in the house now, but when we start to grow, I don't want to fool around upgrading the softener. So, that is why we went with the 64k unit.

As for salt usage, I could be wrong, but I don't think we're using 36lbs per regeneration. We have a 15x17x36, and I believe I put 240lbs of salt in it. We've had the softener installed for probably about 2.5 to 3 months, and we maybe went through less than a quarter of the salt so far, if that.

OH...wait a sec.. 240 / 8 = 30...SO, maybe we are using 36lbs per regen. Woops.



With all this aside, I suppose my original question, without all the equations involved, if I want softer water, do I just move the people dial so the white dot lines up with something a little lower than '21'?

Thanks, and thank you for helping me clear up this confusion. But you are right, I tend to make things more complicated for what they really are.
That is it, just changing where the white dot lines up with the number of gallons, each number on the wheel is X 100...
Now if on the wheel with the pins and spaces, if the last open spaces total 5 spaces and each space is 2 minutes and the flow to the brine tank is .5gpm that will give 15lbs of salt, and with the 2 cubic foot and the 24 grains of hardness 2 people 1750 or half way between the 18 and 17.

The unit most likely will be cleaning about twice a month..
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank You! I think I pretty much understand it now. Sorry for so many questions, but I just like to fully understand everything and the water softener is a brand new technology to me.

Don't worry, I won't even bother flipping the dial around and look at the pins. At least, not for awhile.

Nonetheless, thank you very much for all the help and responses! I'm hoping that this thread can help others too.
 

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Asking questions is a good thing..
If one does not know it is best to ask to get an understanding as to what is going on so that when there is a challenge one knows what to look for the challenge so that it can be fixed.
 
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