[jwake00189]

Hello All,

I currently have a Master Bedroom (home built in 1990) that has a ceiling fan/light combo that is powered by two wall switches located by the door. One switch controls the fan light and the other switch controls the fan blades.

The goal is to install 4 recessed lights controlled by a dimmer switch around a new ceiling fan (no light) that is controlled by the other switch. I have attic access above the bedroom.

I removed the existing fan and was left with a ceiling wire that contains a red, black, and white wire (see picture).

The switch box contains 2 wires: one wire contains 2 white wires, 2 black wires, and 2 ground wires and the other wire is the one from the ceiling fan (red, black, and white wire) (see pictures).

Attic -

My questions -

1. What is the correct way to tap into the power source for the recessed lights? My plan is to daisy chain the lights.

2. What is the best way to supply power to the ceiling fan (again, no light)? The fan has blue, white, and black wires (see picture)

3. What else should I be thinking about? I welcome any other input.

Thank you in advance for your help/input/advice on this project!!

 

[dcwired]

Install a fan rated box in the ceiling. From the existing 3 wire cable put the fan on the white and black.. run the new wiring daisy chained from the recessed lights over to the his box and connect the neutral and red to this new wire.
Note:. Does the new fan have a remote? If so, you must use the receiver that came with it.

 

[jwake00189]

*

 

[jwake00189]

Install a fan rated box in the ceiling. From the existing 3 wire cable put the fan on the white and black.. run the new wiring daisy chained from the recessed lights over to the his box and connect the neutral and red to this new wire.
Note:. Does the new fan have a remote? If so, you must use the receiver that came with it.

Thank you for the quick feedback! One clarification, when you say, "connect the neutral and red wire to the new wire" (the one coming from the daisy chained recessed lights), does that mean the existing white wire will have a wire nut that contains the fan's white wire and the recessed lighting white wire?

Fan white wire + existing white wire + white/neutral wire from recessed lighting = wire connector?

The new wire will have a ground wire, what does that connect to?

Many thanks!

 

[dcwired]

Correct. All green or bare wires go together including the green wires on the fan bracket and housing or rod.
Does this fan have a remote control or does it have pull chains?

 

[jwake00189]

Correct. All green or bare wires go together including the green wires on the fan bracket and housing or rod.
Does this fan have a remote control or does it have pull chains?

Thanks again for the input and advice. The fan does have a remote, however I installed a similar fan in my living room and I can use the switch to turn blades on/off. The remote works too, but is not needed. However the wiring configuration is different that what we have here, so that may impact it. Regarding the green/ground. The wire that is in the ceiling now does not have a ground, just a white, red, and black. Am I missing something?

 

[dcwired]

No ground in the ceiling? Any at the switch box?
As to a fan with a remote, you can not change the speeds without it if there are no pull chains on the fan (usually not on fans with a remote). You need to install the receiver and then you can set the fan to what setting you desire and turn it on and off with the wall switch.

 

[Jim Port]

Ungrounded wiring should not be extended.

 

[Frank Lavorngia]

You said you were getting a new fan. Get one with no remote. Therefore the remote is not an issue.

Do not do any thing to the switches until you install the dimmer. (After you try the recessed lights out) Otherwise the wires on the switches can stay just like they are.
Only use the wires that are now being used, Do not take any wire connectors off of wires that are not connected to a wire from the fan and light. The blue wire on the fan is the light. Which ever wire that was connected to, use that to extend to your recessed lights.
Then as the dc said, connect all whites together. Bare and green wires will also all connect together.

This is a very simple job. IF you don't take other wire nuts off of wires that have nothing to do with it.

Good Luck

 

[jwake00189]

No ground in the ceiling? Any at the switch box?
As to a fan with a remote, you can not change the speeds without it if there are no pull chains on the fan (usually not on fans with a remote). You need to install the receiver and then you can set the fan to what setting you desire and turn it on and off with the wall switch.

I really appreciate the continued input here. I really want to make this work. The fan ceiling cable does not have a ground (just red, white, and black), however when I looked in the switch box I found a 3rd cable tucked behind another cable. What I thought was a 2 white, 2 black cable was actually (2) black, white, and ground wires (see picture)!

So, the 2 grounds are connected. All 3 whites are connected. 2 blacks are connected and the 3rd black connects directly to fan blade switch, then there are 2 small black wires from each switch connected to the other 2 blacks (so 4 black wires nutted together). See next picture.

Thoughts?

Hope this helps - many thanks!

 

[jwake00189]

You said you were getting a new fan. Get one with no remote. Therefore the remote is not an issue.

Do not do any thing to the switches until you install the dimmer. (After you try the recessed lights out) Otherwise the wires on the switches can stay just like they are.
Only use the wires that are now being used, Do not take any wire connectors off of wires that are not connected to a wire from the fan and light. The blue wire on the fan is the light. Which ever wire that was connected to, use that to extend to your recessed lights.
Then as the dc said, connect all whites together. Bare and green wires will also all connect together.

This is a very simple job. IF you don't take other wire nuts off of wires that have nothing to do with it.

Good Luck

Thanks for the input! Any concern that the ceiling wire apparently does not have a ground/bare wire? It only has a red, white, and black. Won't the cable I use to daisy chain the recessed lights have a ground? If so, what do I connect that to?

More pics added to DC's comment.

 

[dcwired]

I say you DO need a fan with a remote so you will have a spare hot switch leg for the recessed lights.
As to the ground, if it is not present you don't have a ground. Legally you are not supposed to extend a non- grounded wire. 1 way to get around this is to put the circuit on a GFCI. This is how you can use 3 prong receptacles on non- grounded circuit.

 

[Frank Lavorngia]

I say you DO need a fan with a remote so you will have a spare hot switch leg for the recessed lights.
As to the ground, if it is not present you don't have a ground. Legally you are not supposed to extend a non- grounded wire. 1 way to get around this is to put the circuit on a GFCI. This is how you can use 3 prong receptacles on non- grounded circuit.

He said he has two wall switches , One for the new fan that does not have a light. The other will be for the recessed lights.
I agree about the gfci on the ungrounded wire. I would first try to skin the wire back a bit until I found the ground wire . It's likely just clipped off.

 

[dcwired]

That is possibly true that the ground is clipped off.

 

[jwake00189]

He said he has two wall switches , One for the new fan that does not have a light. The other will be for the recessed lights.
I agree about the gfci on the ungrounded wire. I would first try to skin the wire back a bit until I found the ground wire . It's likely just clipped off.

Good idea - will do that tomorrow. If there is no ground, could I replace the existing ceiling wire with new 12/3 (+ground) to solve the problem? If so, where would I connect the new ground wire in the switch box? To the other grounds already in the box?

 

[dcwired]

If you can run a new line, all grounds go together at all locations. Best solution for sure.

 

[jwake00189]

If you can run a new line, all grounds go together at all locations. Best solution for sure.

Yahoo! I cannot thank you enough for you help and advice, DCWired! I took Friday off from work and completed the project yesterday (Saturday). Came out fantastic! See picture.

Here is what I discovered...

1. The existing 3-wire cable in the ceiling did not have a ground wire. I skinned it back and never found one. Very strange. I was able to easily remove this wire and install a new wire with a ground.

2. The dimmer switch works great and the other switch operates the fan blades. The remote controls the speed. The fan remembers the speed each time you turn the switch on/off. I'm satisfied with that arrangement, no clanky chain in the middle of the night (ha!).

3. The most time consuming part of this install was measuring and lining up the light placements (i.e. holes in the sheetrock). I used a cheap laser beam, but need something better. Regardless, it came out great.

Thanks again - your very first post was spot on with the hookups!!