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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My canned light fixture can be slid downward when I think it should be absolutely stationary. I'm not talking about the trim ring - I've removed that. It is the can itself that can be slid down about an inch. I would like to install a conversion kit so that I can hang a five-pound pendant light. Does anyone know how this can light is installed and affixed to the structure?

My home was built in 1995 and this recessed canned lighting fixture was installed by the builder. However, when I got started, and pulled to remove the black trim ring, I noticed that the whole entire fixture slid down a little. When I pulled on the trim ring, which was held on by three clips with a pressure fit, the entire white "can" or fixture also started could be pulled down about an inch. I'm not talking about the decorative trim. No, it is the can that can be pulled down a half-inch to an inch. That has me concerned about hanging anything from it. It doesn't seem that the can itself should move at all. And I can push it back up, flush, into position. But I can pull it back down about a half-inch, too. Not good, I don't think, for holding a pendant light! Please see pictures below.

I have no idea what the installation looks like from above. It is in a place in the attic that would be extremely difficult to access. I'm looking for anyone who can tell me how these are installed, how they can be disassembled, and what I can do to reinforce it to keep it from sliding down... or, if it is a lost cause.

My recessed lighting fixture is a Lightolier Recessed Downlighting Lytecan, Model L511MG. (Lightolier was Genlyte company that was bought out by Philips in 2008.)

The raised white bumps/particles on the outside of the light socket are from when the original popcorn ceiling was sprayed. The fact that the socket has popcorn spray on it, but the inside of the can does not, tells me that the socket can be separated from the can and the can must have been put on later. I can see that they are separate, too, however, when I move the can downward, the socket comes right along with it. I tried, but the socket does not push upward and out of the can. So the socket and the can must be attached together somehow.

The inside of the can is perfectly smooth except for four very small areas - looks like some kind of clips, but I can't tell how they work. Two of the clips are at the very top, on either side of the socket. The other two clips are opposite one another on the sides of the can. Wish I could tell how these clips work.

The conversion kit I plan to use is the model 01011 Westinghouse Recessed Light Converter kit that is supposed to work on ANY can size between four and six inches (their emphasis, not mine).

I weighed the pendant light and yes, it is only five pounds.











The photo below shows the can as far down as it will go. This was taken after I gently pulled on it to see how far it would come down.





Perfectly smooth inside the can except for the four small clip areas:



Red arrows show the clips on either side of the socket. Blue arrows show clips on either side of the can, about half way down.


Photos below show close-ups of side clips:




Do you know how this model of can light was installed? Thanks in advance for your help!
Carol
 

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Sure looks like a remodel light not a new constrution light
Going to have to pull out what's there and add a fan rated box.
Should be able to do it from below.
 

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That looks like a remodel can. Typically they are held in place by 4 clips that slide out from the side and angle down to the backside of the drywall. This combined with lip around the open part of the can holds the fixture in place.

That being said, either those clips are not locked into place, or some/all have broken. A properly installed remodel can with good drywall surrounding it can easily support a 5lb conversion pendant.

If the clips are broken, which is highly unlikely, you need to put a new remodel can in there. What is more likely is the clips got jostled loose and are no longer locked in against the drywall like they should be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Recessed can light sliding down from ceiling

Hi Joe and Lance,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I have four of these can lights (all identical) and I'm pretty sure these are original to the house for two reasons: 1) the popcorn spray is on the light socket inside all four, and 2) my neighbors all have the same identical fixture and all of our houses were built at the same time by the same builder. We all have them in the same place: high up on the outside front porch and back porch, inside the front entry and in the hallway between the closets, leading to the master bathroom.

I found these photos on eBay for the same fixture. They may be helpful:

In the photo below, the drawing on the box shows the exterior of the can. It has two extending arms/brackets/clips:




In the photo below, you can see an unassembled, uninstalled can. Look closely at the left side and you can see an extending clip/bracket:



It is very hard to see, but it looks like a downward angled bracket .... and maybe two screw-holes on the end? Not sure.

How do I "pull out what is there"? How do you get it down? Or out? Or, even better, how do I fix what is there? I wish I could get above any of the four can lights in my house, so I could see how they are installed, but it is not possible.

Do I just yank on the can as hard as I can? Should I separate the socket from the can somehow, before I start pulling on the can? Seems like the wiring should be removed from the can before I start pulling, but don't know how to do remove it. I can see in the photo above that the socket is not attached to the can...

Sure do appreciate your time and advice!

Carol
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Dan,

Thanks for the help. I'm not certain of the terminology, but what is shown in Picture 4 and after is one solid piece. There is nothing separate to remove. I pulled off the trim ring in Picture 3. We are on the same page: what is in Picture 4 and after is can still up in the ceiling. My question is how do I keep it firmly implanted in the ceiling? With a small amount of weight, it slips down an inch or two. When I hang a five pound pendant light, I am afraid that is where it will "settle" - an inch or two below the ceiling. Obviously, I don't want that. I want the can to remain flush to the ceiling! So I have to fix that problem before I start hanging the pendant light.
 

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Try with a screw driver to bring those black clip pieces back towed the inside of the trim (center)

Remove them and then slide the trim out.

You will see those clips need to be bent to hold the trim up to the ceiling. Like a toggle bolt kind of. (I think. I've seen then with smaller three clips not longer two clips but I think it's the same idea.) never seen lightolier that style. Usually they have clips that are part of the housing that push into the trim.

Worse to worse if you can't get the clips to work. Drill three small holes in thirds around the trim low to where it's about by sheatrock and will be coveted by baffle. Insert three pins or screws through holes into sheat rock to hold trim up.
If no baffle paint pins or screw.
 

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Re looked at your last pic. What a stupid fixture. Try twisting and pulling it out. Re bend the clips out from the fixture so that when you push the trim back in the clips push into the sides of the sheat rock circle cut out ??
 

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Hi Dan,

Thanks for the help. I'm not certain of the terminology, but what is shown in Picture 4 and after is one solid piece. There is nothing separate to remove. I pulled off the trim ring in Picture 3. We are on the same page: what is in Picture 4 and after is can still up in the ceiling. My question is how do I keep it firmly implanted in the ceiling? With a small amount of weight, it slips down an inch or two. When I hang a five pound pendant light, I am afraid that is where it will "settle" - an inch or two below the ceiling. Obviously, I don't want that. I want the can to remain flush to the ceiling! So I have to fix that problem before I start hanging the pendant light.

#4 is the trim ring. The black piece is a baffle. Try ritelec's suggestion on pushing the clips in. If you look at the eBay photos the entire piece that is hanging down is meant to come out. The housing will still be in the ceiling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok! Lightbulb moment! So the entire white thing - all the way up to the socket, and connected to the socket - is the trim ring? I will head up the ladder and see if I can do anything with those clips! Thanks, Dan! I'll be back in a moment or two. :)

Carol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Dan, thanks for confirming that. I know that the white trim ring and socket are attached/connected at present: the socket cannot be moved up and away from the trim ring at all. Not even a little bit. And I'm pretty sure they have to be disconnected before I can remove that white trim ring. I've been playing with the clips. I also contacted the eBay seller to see if he/she has a set of instructions they would be willing to share. (Keeping my fingers crossed!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, the clips on either side of the socket were a piece of cake. As you suggested, I pinched them toward the center - toward the socket itself - and they easily moved and released from the white trim ring. The socket can now be slid up and above the trim ring (although I have not done that... in case this whole thing goes bust and I need to keep the can light... don't want to lose the socket up into Attic-Lala-Land).

Still working on loosening that housing (trim ring) and getting it to slide down. That is not such an easy task. The clip/bracket/support thing - that is on the outside of the trim ring between it and the can - one side was easy to wiggle down... but the other side seems to be stuck. So the trim ring is still in the can in the ceiling at a big angle.

By the way, just as an aside, my new miner's light works GREAT! I look like a giant goofball, but boy, it is fantastic! :)
 

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That is just the trim you're moving. The housing itself is still in the ceiling. When you get the clips on the side to release, you'll find that the trim will hang by the socket wires. Then you pinch the clips around the socket and it will come off and leave the socket dangling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just talked to the eBay seller, who is an absolute prince of a guy! He was very, very kind and helpful. He assured me that once the socket was loose, I could just turn the white trim ring and pull it down until it came out - using a little more force than I had been previously. So I put him on speaker phone, climbed up on the ladder and did just that. Success!

Here are photos of the entire trim ring and the elusive bracket:








And here is how the can looks now:




So new question: I still wonder if this is going to work? In videos showing installation of the Westinghouse converter, the socket is affixed to the top of the can. My socket comes out the side and is just dangling by wires. I know that the socket does not serve as support for the new pendant light, so maybe it is not an issue?



Thanks again to all for your help!
Carol
 
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