[Mike Reilly]

I will need about 24 bags of grout fill for my job. Googling says that Quickrete Core Fill Grout is the right stuff to use but none of the stores around me sell it. I found I could order it from White Cap online but the shipping cost is almost as much as the materials.

Is there an alternative product that could be used effectively that I might find in North East Florida stores? The few grouts I see specifically say they are not meant for this purpose.

 

[Mike Reilly]

From the MCMA :

All you need to know... recipes.. and data
Concrete Masonry grout.

I very much appreciate that link, however I am not looking to mix my own and deal with proportions etc.
I was hoping someone could point out pre-approved pre-mixed products similar to the quickrete stuff.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Maybe if you tell us what you are trying to do we can help you better.

Pictures always help.

I am trying to purchase materials for grout filling cores in a CMU wall that does not exist yet so no pictures.
It is stem wall for a room on a crawl space only 3 blocks high...filling cores with the vertical rebar and the bond beam around the top.
Sorry, I got hassled at work over something while starting that post and got distracted.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Why can’t you use bags of sakrete with small aggregate? Might have to rod the mix to get it to flow into all the cells, so fill 2 courses at a time and leave it about half way up so the next fill keys in properly.

I don't know...that is kinda what I am asking. When googling it seems "grout fill" is supposed to be a certain type of grout. Certainly if I am allowed to use something else that is what I am after. Only thing I can gather is that grout fill is designed to be soupier and small aggregate.
Also, I can't do any fill until inspector looks at finished block wall with rebar in place.

 

[Mike Reilly]

I think "grout fill" is more of a term for the process and not the material.

You could always call your phone inspector and ask if you need a special mix.

Yeah I will ask him. I try not to ask the guy who is inspecting my work too many questions that might make him think I don't have any idea what I am doing lol.
If regular Sakrete is good to go I will use that...but yes there apparently is specially designed grout fill and I thought I was required to use it lol...

 

[Mike Reilly]

The note says that is for when the grout space is smaller than 4” in either direction. If you are using common cmu you don’t have that condition.

Yes, true, it is available in course as well.
I am only filling a single core straight down 3 blocks deep (actually 2 since the top row is bond beam) so I don't think the aggregate will be an issue no matter what I use. I just didn't want to use concrete if it specifically requires a "grout". If it is just a matter of using a material that is fluid enough to fill with no voids damn near anything should work in my case.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Have you given thought to using the applicable building code?

Wow. No, that had not occurred to me at all.

Forgive me if this comes off as rude but I work in the civil design field. When we create a set of plans for a client to build a subdivision WE as the designers have to go look at all the relevant codes in the jurisdiction to be reviewing the plans and incorporate those into the design with notations and details describing exactly how to build everything in a way to meet those codes. I am very familiar with the codes related to my field. The contractor who receives the plans and is tasked with building the project should not (and likely never does) have to go find a code for anything. They would typically either already KNOW the way most of these typical things are built because they have done hundreds of them already or can easily find the detail of anything custom or unusual in the plans. Final option would be to call up the E.O.R. and ask them what they intended.

In my case, I am the contractor, I have plans created by an Architect that couldn't give two shits about my crappy little addition, charged me way more than he should have, took three times longer than he should have and has been all but unresponsive to my emails since the time I paid his fees. He outsourced the structural design to someone who he refused to allow me to contact directly, who is likely in his mid 20's and who seemed to have created his entire set of drawings with cut and paste generic notes and details (half of which do not even pertain to my project). Getting any answers from these people is all but impossible and I gave up even trying.

I could spend hours trying to locate and decipher all of the applicable building codes related to my questions and hope that I do not miss or misinterpret something (which is definitely a possibility, happens all the time in my work when reviewers read something differently than you do) or I could come to a forum full of professionals, contractors or experienced DIY'ers and tap into what they already KNOW. I don't need to go look up the code for all the technical specifications or requirements on a 2X4 or a sheet of plywood because that stuff is already done. It is clearly noted in the plans if I didn't already know from experience what I needed to buy.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with code requirements for masonry projects, I do not have a subscription that it seems I need to view some of the technical information like ASTM C476 and the following detail is literally the only guidance I got from the plans.

It does not even tell me if it needs to be solid fill for the whole wall or just the reinforced cores. I am going to err on the side of overkill and just fill the whole wall since it is so short.
All that said, I DID in fact attempt to find what I need to know in the local residential version of our BC and have posted some snippets below. I just was hopeful that a forum designed for people to discuss and trade knowledge about construction subjects might have some consensus on what is typically used for this task.

Right now, I am leaning towards either 3000psi sakrete or Type S mortar.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Don't know where in NE FL you are, but I searched HomeDepot in Orange Park (Jacksonville) and they have both Quikrete and Sakrete Grout Fill in stock.

Grout Fill is not just a term for the method, but the material. The ONLY time I see people using or recommending concrete mix to fill CMUs is on this and other get-er-dun forums. The problem with not controlling aggregrate sizes around rebar in tight spaces is crowding and leaving air pockets. If the rebar is not fully in cement, then it is doing no good in connecting your sill plate with the footing. Your vertical grout is only 48"o.c. with the rebar and at corners.

When I search for Sakrete Grout Fill on HD site all I get is this stuff. Is it what you are referring to?

 

[Mike Reilly]

Rest assured, You are NOT being rude.
Sometimes the written word is misunderstood.

Back to the basic question concerning pre-mix availability.... just keep looking; it's out there somewhere. Maybe you may need to provide transport.

CMU grout is product specific. It must contain added aggregate, to the cement, for strength. Most common and easiest to use is a pump-able mixture containing no more than 3/8 inch stone.. sometimes referred to as 3/8 minus... or 1/4 minus stone.
When pouring, do not allow voids in the cores.
(probably Youtube has videos)

Is the CMU detail, above, from your prints or identical?
You original question seems to have expanded to wall design... has it?
Assuming it is a foundation wall, fill all cores.

You should send a written RFI to the Architect AND the PE for a call out specification.

Oh, the frustration you so well describe is common clarification challenges that Pro GCs handle daily. We don't like it but are accustomed.

You always wanted to be a GC, right? 😆 With the honest eloquence of your plaint, you you have a great start... you're beginning to sound like a GC. 😆

Lesseeeee' uhhhh.. another thing.

When asking the building dept any question.... do not ask HOW to meet code.
Present your solution and ask, "will this suffice to meet the code requirement?"
If not.... "Where does it fail that code requirement?" You may, or may not, receive an answer to the second question.

Hope this is beginning to help you take a deep breath and relax a bit....
consider the aggravation as tuition paid for the learning.

I appreciate the calm response.
The detail is right out of my plans. I am not expanding my question for this thread. I just need to know what to buy off the shelf...I have no interest in custom mixing anything.
I assumed that "grout fill" was some specific mixture that needed to be used and was confused when I found it so hard to come by. This is what prompted me to ask if there was some other bagged material that is typically substituted that I needed to know about.
I did email my architect earlier today asking about the cores to be filled, no response yet. I was assuming it needed to be all of them.
I still have one inspection to go before I am allowed to fill the cores, if I had not gotten an answer by then I planed to ask the inspector if I was OK to fill the cores with "x". I just haven't decided what "x" is yet.

 

[Mike Reilly]

That is for tile flooring

/shrug

Here is a Quikcrete Core fill masonry site that may help you... locate the product in your area. Click on 'where to buy'.

Quikcrete core fill masonry

Hope the site helps you on your way.

Did you notice the name of this thread? That page is literally where I started this entire discussion from. I even posted the picture of it back on post #11. It says that it is sold in the Home Depot and Ace Hardware both within a mile of where I live. Neither actually do sell it though. The one place I did find (White Cap) online wanted 300 bucks to ship 23 bags.

I think at this point I am just going to ask the inspector if he approves of the Type S mortar that appears to be allowed per this code...

 

[Mike Reilly]

Who are you? Your not the OP.

Guess that is what happens when I reply from my phone while watching TV.
Oopsies.

EDIT: WOW. I just realized that somewhere back in May or June I somehow lost track of my original account and started using this one and never even noticed. Was in no way intentional. Apparently my phone is still using the old one very weird. Anyway, that LuapYllier guy is me haha. Notice Yllier is my last name backwards.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Okay...the secretes out!!

Well that's where I get everything and I typically see many homeowners. The homeowners always look somewhat lost because not everything is set out like box stores and you cant really see pricing.

I live in a big city so maybe it's different where you are but you should be able to get all your stuff there and lots of answers to questions.

Block walls aren't used for foundations where I'm from (earthquake country) so it's tough to know if something that trivial would even matter to an inspector.

If it pours in the hole and gets hard it's probably good.

Good luck with your walls.

Maybe I just don't know what to search for. I live in Jacksonville FL. If anyone could point me at the right place to go for CMU or rebar it would be extremely helpful.

 

[Mike Reilly]

hmmm, guess, I must ask...

Having no idea of the size of your project and
Knowing it's not the goal on this forum, but...
With the added cost of shipping, have you considered hiring a Pro to fill the CMUs ?

Less stress and expediency might be value added here.

Um...I would feel pretty foolish pouring a footer and building a foundation wall myself and then hiring someone to fill the blocks. All I need to know is the proper material, I am perfectly capable of pouring buckets of mix down a hole.

 

[Mike Reilly]

Try these guys if there near you....if not ask them who is near you with the products you need.

A-1 Block – Concrete Solutions Provider

a1block.com

Thanks for that. They have everything I need including core fill. I tried to send them an email but it came back as undeliverable lol.
I will try calling them Monday. The closest location is 2 hours away though so not too hopeful they will deliver for a small project.

 

[Mike Reilly]

You have a 3 course high wall, and it is not a retaining wall (holding earth back), and has a bond beam to boot. Certainly no need for a fully grouted wall, just the rebar cores and corners.

So your name is actually Paul, not Mike then. Or Paul Michael. Or Michael Paul O'Reilly. My username is "steering column stickshift" spelled backwards.

Maybe not needed but wouldn't hurt if I overkilled it. Still no response from structural, sigh...but I may have found a source for the fill. I didn't realize I had a White Cap local, I was trying to order it and have it shipped which was extreme price...but if I can pick it up that's better. Quickrete themselves responded to my inquiry with the local White Cap office info.

As for the name, no, Paul is the middle.

 

[Mike Reilly]

I suppose that's your password to your bank account too so watch out for the hackers. 3onthetree maybe one of them!

Why? I am remodeling...it is empty...

 

[Mike Reilly]

Good news. Core Fill and Rebar being delivered Thu morning from White Cap. Actually got free delivery too.
And out of pure luck I stopped at the Home Depot on that side of town while I was over there and they had just gotten a delivery of block that morning (had not had any they say for over a month).
That is also getting delivered Fri afternoon...(not free delivery lol). Thanks for chatting it out with me guys.