[Thom Paine]

I will need about 24 bags of grout fill for my job. Googling says that Quickrete Core Fill Grout is the right stuff to use but none of the stores around me sell it. I found I could order it from White Cap online but the shipping cost is almost as much as the materials.

Is there an alternative product that could be used effectively that I might find in North East Florida stores? The few grouts I see specifically say they are not meant for this purpose.

From the MCMA :

All you need to know... recipes.. and data
Concrete Masonry grout.

 

[Thom Paine]

Yes, true, it is available in course as well.
I am only filling a single core straight down 3 blocks deep (actually 2 since the top row is bond beam) so I don't think the aggregate will be an issue no matter what I use. I just didn't want to use concrete if it specifically requires a "grout". If it is just a matter of using a material that is fluid enough to fill with no voids damn near anything should work in my case.

Have you given thought to using the applicable building code?

 

[Thom Paine]

Wow. No, that had not occurred to me at all.

Forgive me if this comes off as rude but I work in the civil design field. When we create a set of plans for a client to build a subdivision WE as the designers have to go look at all the relevant codes in the jurisdiction to be reviewing the plans and incorporate those into the design with notations and details describing exactly how to build everything in a way to meet those codes. I am very familiar with the codes related to my field. The contractor who receives the plans and is tasked with building the project should not (and likely never does) have to go find a code for anything. They would typically either already KNOW the way most of these typical things are built because they have done hundreds of them already or can easily find the detail of anything custom or unusual in the plans. Final option would be to call up the E.O.R. and ask them what they intended.

In my case, I am the contractor, I have plans created by an Architect that couldn't give two shits about my crappy little addition, charged me way more than he should have, took three times longer than he should have and has been all but unresponsive to my emails since the time I paid his fees. He outsourced the structural design to someone who he refused to allow me to contact directly, who is likely in his mid 20's and who seemed to have created his entire set of drawings with cut and paste generic notes and details (half of which do not even pertain to my project). Getting any answers from these people is all but impossible and I gave up even trying.

I could spend hours trying to locate and decipher all of the applicable building codes related to my questions and hope that I do not miss or misinterpret something (which is definitely a possibility, happens all the time in my work when reviewers read something differently than you do) or I could come to a forum full of professionals, contractors or experienced DIY'ers and tap into what they already KNOW. I don't need to go look up the code for all the technical specifications or requirements on a 2X4 or a sheet of plywood because that stuff is already done. It is clearly noted in the plans if I didn't already know from experience what I needed to buy.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with code requirements for masonry projects, I do not have a subscription that it seems I need to view some of the technical information like ASTM C476 and the following detail is literally the only guidance I got from the plans.

View attachment 722125

It does not even tell me if it needs to be solid fill for the whole wall or just the reinforced cores. I am going to err on the side of overkill and just fill the whole wall since it is so short.
All that said, I DID in fact attempt to find what I need to know in the local residential version of our BC and have posted some snippets below. I just was hopeful that a forum designed for people to discuss and trade knowledge about construction subjects might have some consensus on what is typically used for this task.

Right now, I am leaning towards either 3000psi sakrete or Type S mortar.


View attachment 722124
View attachment 722123

View attachment 722122

Rest assured, You are NOT being rude.
Sometimes the written word is misunderstood.

Back to the basic question concerning pre-mix availability.... just keep looking; it's out there somewhere. Maybe you may need to provide transport.

CMU grout is product specific. It must contain added aggregate, to the cement, for strength. Most common and easiest to use is a pump-able mixture containing no more than 3/8 inch stone.. sometimes referred to as 3/8 minus... or 1/4 minus stone.
When pouring, do not allow voids in the cores.
(probably Youtube has videos)

Is the CMU detail, above, from your prints or identical?
You original question seems to have expanded to wall design... has it?
Assuming it is a foundation wall, fill all cores.

You should send a written RFI to the Architect AND the PE for a call out specification.

Oh, the frustration you so well describe is common clarification challenges that Pro GCs handle daily. We don't like it but are accustomed.

You always wanted to be a GC, right? 😆 With the honest eloquence of your plaint, you you have a great start... you're beginning to sound like a GC. 😆

Lesseeeee' uhhhh.. another thing.

When asking the building dept any question.... do not ask HOW to meet code.
Present your solution and ask, "will this suffice to meet the code requirement?"
If not.... "Where does it fail that code requirement?" You may, or may not, receive an answer to the second question.

Hope this is beginning to help you take a deep breath and relax a bit....
consider the aggravation as tuition paid for the learning.

 

[Thom Paine]

When I search for Sakrete Grout Fill on HD site all I get is this stuff. Is it what you are referring to?
View attachment 722181

That is for tile flooring

 

[Thom Paine]

I appreciate the calm response.
The detail is right out of my plans. I am not expanding my question for this thread. I just need to know what to buy off the shelf...I have no interest in custom mixing anything.
I assumed that "grout fill" was some specific mixture that needed to be used and was confused when I found it so hard to come by. This is what prompted me to ask if there was some other bagged material that is typically substituted that I needed to know about.
I did email my architect earlier today asking about the cores to be filled, no response yet. I was assuming it needed to be all of them.
I still have one inspection to go before I am allowed to fill the cores, if I had not gotten an answer by then I planed to ask the inspector if I was OK to fill the cores with "x". I just haven't decided what "x" is yet.

Here is a Quikcrete Core fill masonry site that may help you... locate the product in your area. Click on 'where to buy'.

Quikcrete core fill masonry

I'll be happy to read the spec sheets, coarse vs. fine grout usage, if you wish to discuss that data with the Arch. or EOR. -shrug- there may be questions.

I'm a GC with 50+yrs.... NO, I don't know everything! Though, I do know enough to have the occassional "deep discussion" with Architects and Engineers. (similar education)😆

Historically, I do not recall, ever, a foundation wall not called out fully grouted... There was a time when this was not so. Maybe in some locales it is still acceptable.

Above grade it is not uncommon to have only columns at spec'd points grouted.

Hope the site helps you on your way.

I imagine, before your addition is done, you'll have reason for further design spec. call outs.
Not unusual with additions... referred to as site adjustments; for which you may need written approval.

Welcome to the world of GC ! 😁

 

[Thom Paine]

/shrug View attachment 722214


Did you notice the name of this thread? That page is literally where I started this entire discussion from. I even posted the picture of it back on post #11. It says that it is sold in the Home Depot and Ace Hardware both within a mile of where I live. Neither actually do sell it though. The one place I did find (White Cap) online wanted 300 bucks to ship 23 bags.

I think at this point I am just going to ask the inspector if he approves of the Type S mortar that appears to be allowed per this code...
View attachment 722215

The worse that can happen is .. he says no! Hopefully, he'll approve.

 

[Thom Paine]

I dont get intimidated. I just havent found any of these supply houses everyone keeps telling me to go to that will sell to me. Hell I am needing to source block and rebar too.

Frequently, and with present supply shortages, Suppliers choose to service only Pros.
Keep Searching. You may find a supplier.

 

[Thom Paine]

Frequently, and with present supply shortages, Suppliers choose to service only Pros.
Keep Searching. You may find a supplier.

hmmm, guess, I must ask...

Having no idea of the size of your project and
Knowing it's not the goal on this forum, but...
With the added cost of shipping, have you considered hiring a Pro to fill the CMUs ?

Less stress and expediency might be value added here.

 

[Thom Paine]

Actually, no it isn't.

It's non-shrink, or precision grout, and is extremely high strength, like 10-12,000 psi typically.

It's used for anchoring machines, supporting overhead cranes, underpinning, and about 10,000 other things, but it's not meant for floor tiling, core fill, for that matter.

Thank you for that correction.

 

[Thom Paine]

Um...I would feel pretty foolish pouring a footer and building a foundation wall myself and then hiring someone to fill the blocks. All I need to know is the proper material, I am perfectly capable of pouring buckets of mix down a hole.

Oops.... had nothing to do with ability... all about cost balance... and product availability. -shrug-