[jackdashack]

Hello, I have just about finished up sealing all the baseboard heating pipes, copper, that go into the basement. Of course most of them are in the rooms themselves but a good bit travels under, in the ceiling of the basement and the basement is cold enough so I figure it's worth it.

My question is this. Will the self sealing seal even better when heat is on. I have tried to pinch and squeeze it as much as possible to get the very best seal. But I have wondered if it might seal even better after the heat is applied by the heat coming on? Thanks! jack ":-Dx

 

[Fix'n it]

post a link to this foam you speak of.

 

[jackdashack]

This forum is not allowing me to post links, saying I have not made at least 1 post yet. That's crazy. I've tried multiple times and will not allow. All I can say is Google ...

Frost King Tubular Pipe Insulation and it should be the first link under that ads at the top!?!??

 

[jackdashack]

post a link to this foam you speak of.

Let me try posting a link now! Eureka!! It worked.

http://www.frostking.com/pre-slit-tubular-polyethylene-foam-pipe/

 

[Bob Sanders]

No. Heat won't make much of a difference. That stuff works okay so long as you are using the correct sizes. If there is any tension on the joints though it will come apart so when you do corners either make the fit properly or use a bit of friction tape.

 

[Yodaman]

I usually hold it together with electrical tape (4 to 5 loops) or zip ties spaced as necessary

 

[jackdashack]

I usually hold it together with electrical tape (4 to 5 loops) or zip ties spaced as necessary

Thanks Yodaman! This self sealing stuff is pretty good. Once you pull the protective tape from both sides to come together it's pretty much sealed. You'll almost tear the foam to try to part them. I was just wondering if there was any more sealing after the heat is applied. OR ... does the seal dry out. I hope their formula was made to not dry out. No ties or tape necessary. Although at certain places I have used duct tape to augment a good fix. Thanks again! :vs_closedeyes:

 

[jackdashack]

No. Heat won't make much of a difference. That stuff works okay so long as you are using the correct sizes. If there is any tension on the joints though it will come apart so when you do corners either make the fit properly or use a bit of friction tape.

Bob, as I told Yodaman I have used duct tape at certain points because it seemed prudent. Funny how it's taken me a number of times to get it done. When I go back to where I first started I have this desire to undo and do some of it better. lol I think I'll just leave it alone. It may not look quite as pretty, although I am a confessed perfectionist ... and that ain't a fun type to be, as the last I've done. :thumbup:

 

[beenthere]

You realize that insulating the pipes in the basement will make the basement colder. Which will also make your floors colder. Which can make you feel colder when walking on the floors.

 

[Yodaman]

You realize that insulating the pipes in the basement will make the basement colder. Which will also make your floors colder. Which can make you feel colder when walking on the floors.

With that thought, why bother sealing duckwork, or insulating it? For years it was my contention that if some heat was lost from leaky duck work that the lost heat is still in the house. So whats the big deal. But who am I to argue with industry pros and industry codes.

 

[jackdashack]

You realize that insulating the pipes in the basement will make the basement colder. Which will also make your floors colder. Which can make you feel colder when walking on the floors.

Beenthere: thanks for that observation. I'll submit this. The floors are covered with padding and carpet. The pipes in the basement are high up in the ceiling of the basement all but hidden by the wood beams and such. I doubt if they really add to the heat of the basement, which by the way is not a living space. Although very dry and I keep it neat, carry over from my Navy days, I don't spend a lot of time there in the Winter. If the basement gets heated in any way it's because it's fully open and the chimney and the boiler are in the middle. It may, probably does, provide some heat. And then there is the dryer in the laundry section. Thanks! :wink2:

 

[jackdashack]

With that thought, why bother sealing duckwork, or insulating it? For years it was my contention that if some heat was lost from leaky duck work that the lost heat is still in the house. So whats the big deal. But who am I to argue with industry pros and industry codes.

Yodaman: I tend to feel I've not wasted my time insulating the pipes. The monthly bill will tell that when I compare with last year same time. This is a bad month to check however because here in the Mid-Atlantic region. We've had a very warm season so far. A week ago 60's and even hit 70 I believe. :vs_worry:

 

[beenthere]

With that thought, why bother sealing duckwork, or insulating it? For years it was my contention that if some heat was lost from leaky duck work that the lost heat is still in the house. So whats the big deal. But who am I to argue with industry pros and industry codes.

Duct work is insulated in many basements to prevent condensation during the summer when the A/C runs. Its sealed so as not to bring unconditioned air into the occupied area.

We're talking about a basement with hydronic piping, which is not the same as a forced air duct system.

 

[user_12345a]

With that thought, why bother sealing duckwork, or insulating it? For years it was my contention that if some heat was lost from leaky duck work that the lost heat is still in the house. So whats the big deal. But who am I to argue with industry pros and industry codes.

The leakage makes the distribution system less effective, especially for a/c where the chilled air doesn't rise.

The ducts are supposed to direct the air to where it's needed; if you're losing 10-20%, think of what that does to airflow in distant rooms.



Leaks also pressurize/depressurize certain areas, leading to more infiltration.

 

[Yodaman]

I am not making a case for not insulating ductwork. I was surprised by Been making a case for not insulating hotwater pipes. Which will also decrease efficiency by generating more heat loss into a unconditioned space.

You realize that insulating the pipes in the basement will make the basement colder. Which will also make your floors colder. Which can make you feel colder when walking on the floors.

 

[beenthere]

I am not making a case for not insulating ductwork. I was surprised by Been making a case for not insulating hotwater pipes. Which will also decrease efficiency by generating more heat loss into a unconditioned space.

The heat loss of the pipes to the basement, actually helps the floor above. The floor is warmer. Heat loss from the first floor to the basement is decreased.

 

[Yodaman]

The heat loss of the pipes to the basement, actually helps the floor above. The floor is warmer. Heat loss from the first floor to the basement is decreased.

I will give you that some of the heat loss will go into the floor and provide some benefit. The question is will the heat loss into the non-conditioned space, from not insulating the pipes be greater than the benefit of the lost heat preheating the floors?

 

[beenthere]

I will give you that some of the heat loss will go into the floor and provide some benefit. The question is will the heat loss into the non-conditioned space, from not insulating the pipes be greater than the benefit of the lost heat preheating the floors?

No. Look up the heat transfer rates of copper. Its not really that much. Thats why copper fin baseboard has fins.

 

[jackdashack]

Just some grist for the mill from the layman here. Remember there is padding and carpet between the supply pipes in the basement and the finned pipes actually in the rooms. I don't know if that padding and carpet is a barrier that stops any help from naked pipes in the basement. Also, the way this small home is laid out most of the pipe is up in the rooms. Relative to the finned pipe in the rooms there were few feet exposed in the basement. I thought covering them would just keep the water warmer when in the basement to the next "above the floor" pipe with fins. And some of the expose pipe actually ran by 3 ground level windows in the basement notorious for being cold windows. If there is any benefit from heat sources in the basement, again to repeat myself, in my case it would come from the gas boiler located central in the basement and has opportunity to spread to the whole area and give some heat to the first floor wood, but then there is the padding and carpet on top. And the pipes I protected were only on the edges of the basement, high up in beams, and not running across the floor of the house. Clear as mud? :vs_lol:

 

[beenthere]

Padding and carpet do add an insulation value. Insulation slows down heat transfer, it doesn't stop it.

If your piping in the basement is 3/4", then you lose about 100 BTUs per linear foot if your water temp is 160 and your basement temp is 60.

The warmer your basement is, the more heat the boiler puts into the water, as its giving up less heat to the basement. With only short runs of pipe in the basement, the trade off can be a wash.

Almost never hurts to insulate pipes that run across a window area.