[WayneK]

Hello,

I'm repairing and upgrading the wire shelving in our master closet. The existing single shelf recently collapsed from the weight of clothes. While I'm putting it back, hopefully much stronger than before, I'm also adding a second wire shelf to increase hanging space.

In the previous installation, none of the back clips, end brackets, or braces were tied into studs. In the new installation I'm going to put a brace at every stud (every 1'-6" - I realize this is overkill), install the back clips on studs where I can, and install several C-clamps on studs to make sure the back edge doesn't lift up and roll over from the weight at the front of the shelf, where the clothes are hung.

I originally planned to do a conventional installation with two levels all the way across the closet (it's a long closet: 11'-0" but not a walk-in). To maximize storage, I've decided it would be better to cut the lower shelf in half and install it at different elevations (each 5'-6" long). Each shelf will be anchored at the wall on one end but will be open-ended in the middle. This is what concerns me.

The shelf should be very strong for supporting weight, but I'm worried about lateral forces when clothes are moved back and forth on the rack. Normally, a shelf is anchored at the wall on both ends and can't move laterally. When clothes are shoved around, I'm afraid the shelf could fall over, towards the middle of the closet, where there's nothing to stop it from moving.

I think the answer to this is the C-clamps. I think they will prevent the lateral movement I'm worried about. What do you think? Is there something additional I could do?

I have a secondary question. Because of paranoia induced by the previous collapse, I was thinking about putting a vertical rod (2"x2") to support the shelf in the middle. But as planning has progressed, I've decided I'd really prefer not to do that because it will spoil the space I'd like to use for shelves in the middle. Does anyone think the vertical rod is a necessity?

Thanks, Wayne

 

[Zorfox]

You’re over thinking your project IMO.

Those rear clips that attach to the wall should be more than adequate. To increase the strength add more maybe 7 inches apart. The same holds true for the angle brackets. Want to carry more weight? Add more braces.

You should have nearly zero lateral movement. The shelves are heavily braces with all those wires welded together. If you anchor the rear there should be no lateral motion. Does that make sense?

Basically simply install them as the directions say. It’s worked for many years. I do however deviate when attaching the angle brackets. I use #8 self drilling drywall anchors and a screw. The ones that come with the bracket seem to fail after the brace gets hit by vacuum cleaners, bowling balls or heads. So I bolster that connection. 90% of the failures I've seen are the angle brackets coming loose from the wall. When that happens...it ain't pretty.:no:

 

[WayneK]

Zorfox,

Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Adding back clips will help but they're not designed to restrain lateral movement and are weak in the side-to-side direction (I just tested this). The strength of the rack itself is irrelevant to lateral movement. Braces support vertical weight and will be useless if the rack starts moving sideways.

I don't think you appreciate how much force will be applied when a hundred pounds of clothes are rapidly slid along the rack.

I think the C-bolts are the answer (which you never mentioned). Do you have experience with this particular installation: an open-ended wire shelf with a huge load of clothes that will be slid back and forth? I've read and watched dozens of instructional guides and videos, and have yet to find one that covers this.

I'm going ahead with my idea and will just stress test it myself to see how stable it feels.

Wayne

 

[Zorfox]

The reason I'm didn't comment on the C-Bolts (C-clamp?) is that I have no idea what you're referring to.

I've installed hundreds of feet of the stuff. I simply don't see much lateral movement. Just to verify I am referring to lateral movement being right to left as you look straight into the closet.

If you really want to bolster the load carrying capacity, upgrade to the shelf track system. I did floor to ceiling in a garage with that. None of the shelves were attached to the wall. They simply sat on the brackets. They loaded them with boxes of books. Sliding them into position without problems. If you expect to put more weight on them than that you need to reconsider you storage plan. :laughing:

 

[WayneK]

Thanks, I feel better about things now. I may use the shelf track system elsewhere but I think I'm getting more storage for the dollar with the wire racks.

I don't know what's going on with my posts. I keep getting an error saying I've exceeded 10,000 characters. I tried to insert a screen capture of a Rubbermaid C Clamp. Maybe that's the problem. You can Google it if you want to see them.

 

[WayneK]

2nd try for the Rubbermaid C Clamp:

 

[Zorfox]

2nd try for the Rubbermaid C Clamp:

Aha! Those C-Clamps are NOT structural fasteners. If that's what failed prior I get it now. Those carry no real weight. That's not what they're designed for.

The fasteners to carry the load off the back wall are these.

Add those no more than 12" apart. The closer the stronger.

 

[WayneK]

Yes, I'm using those clips (see my original description). That's what was installed when the system failed. They do not prevent the back edge of the shelves from lifting up and rolling over because of the weight of clothes at the front. I'm doing the C-clamps IN ADDITION to those to keep the back edge from lifting up or moving laterally. That's all.

 

[WayneK]

And the C Clamps are much stronger than the back clips. I can pull a back clip anchor through the dry wall with my bare hands because I just did it. I'd like to see you do that with a C Clamp screwed into a stud.

 

[Zorfox]

Gotcha. Those c-clamps are designed to keep the back of the shelf from lifting off the clamps. If you have enough weight to pop them free with just clothes maybe you have the wrong size angle brackets.

Do your angle brackets extend to the edge of the shelf like this....?

If not make sure you use brackets designed for the depth of your shelf. The brace should be at the end of the shelf. Otherwise, you'll have a teeter tooter effect. There should be little superior force (straight up) on the rear clips if installed correctly.

Sorry for the confusion. Just trying to identify your problem. :wink:

 

[WayneK]

Sure, Zorfox, no problem. I appreciate your taking the time to discuss it. When the old system failed, it pulled half a dozen of the back clips out of the wall and also the two end brackets. The braces came loose but they were undamaged (they did not buckle).

Yes, it had the properly sized braces installed as you show it. The problem was: there were not enough braces, and nothing was installed into a stud. In the new installation, I'm going to more than double the braces and install all of them into studs. So I think the vertical support will be fine. But I'm introducing a new weakness in the system because one end of the shelf will be unattached.

There will be very heavy clothes being slid back and forth on the rod. In a conventional system, there is little to keep the system from tipping over sideways if one end is unattached. The shelf is not attached at the end bracket. It just sits in there and can be easily pulled out. The back clips provide some restraint but they're quite weak and tend to rotate when the shelf moves sideways (I tested this). The braces will provide no resistance to sideways movement.

All this is not a problem in most cases because the shelf extends to the wall on each end and can't move sideways very far. Most shelves installed with an open end are probably for light objects that don't get moved around. In my case, there will be huge weights being slid back and forth with a lot of force (friction) on the rod.

I was hoping someone could say, "Yes, I've installed a wire shelf 6 feet long, with open end, and a heavy load of clothes...and it was never a problem."

 

[ron45]

 

[WayneK]

Is that supposed to mean something? My WIRE shelving is up and it feels quite strong.

 

[ron45]

No, just a suggestion in case you might like it.
Those brackets are screwed directly to the studs. You would only need three to accomplish what you have described, without ever having any problems.
People on this site are quite testical.?

 

[WayneK]

Ron,

I wasn't trying to be "testical". I didn't know what you were getting at since the whole discussion was about wire shelving. A short note, as you added in your second post, would have been helpful.

I'm aware of the option you showed and maybe I should have gone that way but all our existing closet shelving is wire so I decided to stick with that, partly because I was able to re-use some of the old shelving that collapsed.

Wayne

 

[ron45]

I agree.