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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Yeah. Maybe you just had a faulty power supply. Get a new one anyway to eliminate that cause.

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that was my idea if that doesnt work then im might need a driver to have electrician install it for me to the outlet
 

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I bough the power supply from ebay. so i cant get my money back. im guess it from china just like every thing online
That just sounds like a rationalization to ignore quality altogether and buy "whatever".

Honestly I buy most of my LED "kit" from eBay and Amazon myself. It's not UL listed most of it, but it's low voltage, so not that big a deal.

The power supply, however, certainly is AC voltage, and that needs to be UL listed. Fortunately they sell so many billions of power supplies that it's no trouble at all finding UL listed one at Chinese prices.

I just meant the price seems very low. Doesn't necessarily mean the product is crap but it's certainly something to consider.
Pay close attention to the pull-down menus above the "Buy" button. They are offering a wide variety of products and bundles there. The default is just for 5m (16') of LED, and $6 is a reasonable price for that.

They are relying on extremely direct low shipping rates China to the US.

So yeah, you bought too small of a power supply. Get a bigger one.
Or, a piece o' junk power supply.

Here:

TMEZON 12 Volt 2A Power Adapter Supply AC to DC 2.1mm X 5.5mm Plug 12v 2 Amp Power Supply, Wall Plug Extra Long 8 Foot Cord https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q2E5IXW/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_FSN7MJVRTMJMNF0R6RMZ

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Nope.

663736




Thanks that was helpful so it can just be any power supply.
Any UL Listed power supply. But as said, they make so many billions of them that there's no significant price gap between UL listed ones and Chinesium junkers.
 

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That just sounds like a rationalization to ignore quality altogether and buy "whatever".

Honestly I buy most of my LED "kit" from eBay and Amazon myself. It's not UL listed most of it, but it's low voltage, so not that big a deal.

The power supply, however, certainly is AC voltage, and that needs to be UL listed. Fortunately they sell so many billions of power supplies that it's no trouble at all finding UL listed one at Chinese prices.



Pay close attention to the pull-down menus above the "Buy" button. They are offering a wide variety of products and bundles there. The default is just for 5m (16') of LED, and $6 is a reasonable price for that.

They are relying on extremely direct low shipping rates China to the US.



Or, a piece o' junk power supply.



Nope.

View attachment 663736





Any UL Listed power supply. But as said, they make so many billions of them that there's no significant price gap between UL listed ones and Chinesium junkers.
My bad. I didn't check into the listing that deeply. Good catch. I know this is a real problem. They should not be able to sell non listed power supplies in the US.

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Yeah, like I say it's almost impossible to get reliable product mail order. With a bricks and mortar retailer, the FTC can simply walk in and paw the merchandise. But trying to regulate mail order is impossible. Customs doesn't have the staff or space to inspect every ePacket. Amazon lawyers have figured out how to keep the FTC out of Amazon warehouses / deny liability for compliance (third party items / might ship to Canada / free trade zone).

Bezos has a powerful will to turn America into "free trade"/caveat emptor. I don't think anyone in the government has the juice to stand up to him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
So what power supply should i get that you recommend with the led lights i have now?
 

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I'd get at minimum 5A, unless you have the SMD3528 strip. Hard to tell, your listing is for multiple types of LEDs.

Note from your vendor in the listing:

Power supply note:

5M 3528 12V 2A
5M 5630 5050 12V 5A
10M 3528 12V 5A
10M 5630 5050 12V 8A
20M 3528 12V 8A
20M 5630 5050 12V 2X8A


I would also add 20% on top of that as a china tax.
 

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Although the title says it is UL, I see no UL mark in the photos. Based on the seller (name is some Chinese characters), I suspect it is not really UL Listed. Just Chinese imported junk. I would order one from a more trusted seller, like DigiKey or even Jameco.

 

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Chinese brand may have a CCC certification rather than an UL certification.

The problem is not whether the logo (either UL or CCC) is on the device, the question is, is it really trustable? Any unscrupulous manufacturer can print the UL or CCC logo without actually submitting it (there is also the difference between UL Listed and UL Certified, btw). And just because it's UL anything, it doesn't mean it's going to work if you don't size it properly.

The one you ordered will NOT work if you bought the 5630 or 5050 strips. It MAY work if you bought the 3528 strip (assuming tolerance is not too bad)
 

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Chinese brand may have a CCC certification rather than an UL certification.

The problem is not whether the logo (either UL or CCC) is on the device, the question is, is it really trustable? Any unscrupulous manufacturer can print the UL or CCC logo without actually submitting it (there is also the difference between UL Listed and UL Certified, btw). And just because it's UL anything, it doesn't mean it's going to work if you don't size it properly.

The one you ordered will NOT work if you bought the 5630 or 5050 strips. It MAY work if you bought the 3528 strip (assuming tolerance is not too bad)
I'm not sure if you are saying that CCC is equivalent to a UL Listing. But just to be clear - it is not. CCC is not a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory. All CCC means is that a product supposedly met Chinese standards. And I don't even see a CCC mark on the wall wart that the OP linked to. All I see is a FCC mark.

I agree that a company may counterfeit a CCC or UL mark on their products. That's why I suggested purchasing from a trusted seller like DigiKey, rather than Amazon. Amazon is happy to sell any junk that Chinese companies care to offer through their web site.
 

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Well, "national" is all relative, depending on where you call home.

CCC is issued by Certification and Accreditation Administration of the PRC, so it is a "nationally recognized" certification. China has its own "nationally recognized laboratories".

So, if I remember correctly, a power supply could be missing both CCC and UL logos, but must have FCC logo. Both CCC and UL logos are optional seals of quality for the Chinese and US markets respectively (some types of devices MUST have CCC listing in China, and some types of devices MUST have UL listing in the US -- like where relating to building codes)

If you are running small batches of products (for example, the products sold by sparkfun, or your first kickstarter run), you will most likely not do UL listing since it's cost prohibitive.

Big boys on the other hand will throw the kitchen sink at it.. here's a screenshot from an HP power supply. You can afford all those logos if you are going to sell two million power supplies (and potentially carry it across multiple product lines over multiple years). If you are making small batches, you are not going to be able to afford all that. FCC certification is only about $700 or so, while the UL certification is 10-15k.. because.. you know.. UL is a for profit organization these days.

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
O
Well, "national" is all relative, depending on where you call home.

CCC is issued by Certification and Accreditation Administration of the PRC, so it is a "nationally recognized" certification. China has its own "nationally recognized laboratories".

So, if I remember correctly, a power supply could be missing both CCC and UL logos, but must have FCC logo. Both CCC and UL logos are optional seals of quality for the Chinese and US markets respectively (some types of devices MUST have CCC listing in China, and some types of devices MUST have UL listing in the US -- like where relating to building codes)

If you are running small batches of products (for example, the products sold by sparkfun, or your first kickstarter run), you will most likely not do UL listing since it's cost prohibitive.

Big boys on the other hand will throw the kitchen sink at it.. here's a screenshot from an HP power supply. You can afford all those logos if you are going to sell two million power supplies (and potentially carry it across multiple product lines over multiple years). If you are making small batches, you are not going to be able to afford all that. FCC certification is only about $700 or so, while the UL certification is 10-15k.. because.. you know.. UL is a for profit organization these days.

View attachment 664829
So do you a have a links what power supply will work with my led strip?
 

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Gabe86, tell us which strip you bought (3528, 5050, etc), the length (5m, 10m) and how many of them you plan to power off of the same power supply. Your vendor shows multiple types and multiple lengths in the same listing.
 

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Well, "national" is all relative, depending on where you call home.
No it isn't.

Everything you say in this thread about certifications is just a train wreck. All due respect, you don't know what you're talking about.

CCC is issued by Certification and Accreditation Administration of the PRC, so it is a "nationally recognized" certification. China has its own "nationally recognized laboratories".
You're just cherry-picking the phrase "nationally recognized" here, those are the least useful words here.

The PRC government defined the CCC logo, so obviously they "recognize" the mark "nationally" since they defined it.

But you need to look closer at what they defined it as, and why they did it. These companies making cheap clones and counterfeits are not doing it unawares of the Chinese government. PRC stands for People's Republic of China, and that means actual, genuine, real-world Bolshevik Communism with a command economy. PRC government certainly knows what their factories are making. They commanded the "free-ish market" thing you see, for national objectives like economic power, decimating other countries' domestic manufacturing capacity (e.g. the USA's inability to make N95 masks) and increasing world dependency on China. For instance the US can't really stand up to China militarily, without obliterating its consumer supply of almost everything!



Chinese makers' biggest problem is quality... and quality recognition.
They can't, or won't, build quality - using good materials, including safety features in designs, and satisfying Real Independent Testing Labs, like UL, which includes certification of designs, and ongoing inspections to avoid bait and switch. Every builder of everything sold at retail in the US is able to do this!! Why can't China?

In Europe, they have a mark called CE. This is a self-certification mark: the manufacturer supposedly tests in their own in-house lab, and writes a statement saying they passed. It's a far cry from independent third party testing, but European authorities can inflict consequences on EU-citizen manufacturers and importers with major assets inside the EU.

However, they simply do not have the reach to punish anyone outside the EU who fakes the CE mark. As such, China does this incessantly, with CE being practically the default mark for anything from China.

Of course the market is getting wise to that, so PRC government created the CCC mark. But it was always intended to simply be another markt to fake. Either the CCC mark has no meaty standard behind it, or the PRC government turns a blind eye to faking that mark/not doing the actual lab testing/knowing darn well the materials or design do not qualify.



Meanwhile, in America, we have always required independent third party testing labs. Back in the day UL had a monopoly on that, but as we got into GATT treaties, we broke that up so any countries' labs could compete If They Prove They Do An Equal Job. So immediately, other national labs like CSA, BSI and TUV qualified. For-profit labs have been set up, such as ETL. There is a robust market in these labs, the monopoly is gone.

Who oversees these independent labs and sees that they do an equal job? US OSHA, which produces the list of Nationally Recognized Testing Labs. Or NRTLs. And yeah, labs can screw up and lose their NRTL status. It's happened.

What standards do NRTLs certify to? The US curator of safety standards is still UL - it's their other "hat". The UL publishes a variety of standards, informally called the "White Book". Pick any proper NRTL -- ETL, TUV, the Swedish lab -- all of them will certify your US equipment to the White Book, and give you a US endorsement if it qualifies.



So you are saying a CCC logo is just as good as a UL logo. I am saying "no it's not". Even if the mark is genuine, and the company self-tested to the full Chinese standards, those standards do not compare to the UL White Book, and self-testing is never comparable to independent testing.



Why doesn't Chinese makers simply fake the UL, CSA and other NRTL marks? I don't know, I'm not an international trade lawyer, but I'm pretty sure UL is has a considerable legal team that "brings down the hurt" on anyone who tries. Further, defence of your mark is a condition of remaining an NRTL. Anyway it's one thing to fake a UL logo, but quite another to fake a UL file number - that 6-9 digit number near the UL mark. It's possible to get online and check the veracity of that - and UL could make it a lot easier and provide more data if they wanted to, if the mark was under threat in some way. Right now, it doesn't seem to be.



So, if I remember correctly, a power supply could be missing both CCC and UL logos, but must have FCC logo.
The FCC logo has nothing to do with safety. It has to do with emission radiation. It and the RoHS logo are so commonly faked that it is meaningless, and indicates nothing unless there is a proper NRTL logo present also.
 

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Ok, whatever, I am not going at argue this. But for the record, I never made any claims about the quality of a product bearing either certification, and I feel like this is getting political. CCC is tested by independent labs, subject to CCC guidelines, just like the UL certification. Whether YOU trust those independent labs is another question, and I cannot tell you to trust them or not trust them. And I'm not going to argue whether they are truly independent either. Yes, there is a lot of crap coming out of China, and China has a major culture of fraud and cutting corners, but the Chinese leadership knows that they cannot become a world power if their infrastructure is crap, so they are trying to rectify this. While we are arguing about gender pronouns and out president can't even remember his own name, they are actually trying to fix meaningful things that makes them more competitive. In the last few decades we've made one or two steps forwards, the Chinese have made fifty (given where they were before Clinton took office), and they will overtake us eventually, a black swan event crashing their economy or causing massive unrest not withstanding.

"Why doesn't Chinese makers simply fake the UL, CSA and other NRTL marks? " Oh but they do. CBP stops large shipments with counterfeit UL marks all the time. They even tried to scam large companies (I've received product samples with fake UL listings, and the UL logo was actually a giveaway since I don't usually receive early eval samples that have already been certified).

And I never claimed FCC logo is a safety logo, it's just that it's a required certification on anything that emits EM radiation above a certain frequency. I was trying to point out why the power supply the OP had MAY have been okay with only a FCC logo, because that was the only REQUIRED logo.

But anyway, no more from me on the topic. This is not the forum, nor the thread for it.
 

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Well, I'm referring to the swill found in the direct-to-consumer mail order channels, such as Amazon Marketplace, eBay, wish.com, Amazon Marketplace, AliExpress, DealExtreme, Amazon Marketplace, Banggood, and lest I forget, Amazon Marketplace. There, you see very few faked NRTL marks, but CCC faked as gleefully and relentlessly as CE.

Because that is the stuff we deal with when helping people solve electrical problems, which often come from those very items. China can build quality when they really want to, that's why their buildings don't fall down. Much :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Just came and I had to put it to the test. Seem very high. Not sure why this LED causing the power supply to get hot. Is the LED strip drawing in more power. Or the power supply can't handle the LED strip
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