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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i'm embarking on a new project for me.. pool coping using Oak concrete pavers. they are 8" wide by 12" long and 2 3/8" thick. they are being installed on a steel wall inground pool where the steel bond area is 4" wide.

coping sits on top of steel wall and overhangs 1". the other 7 " of block rests in a bed of mortar.

installation is for northern climate.

first few blocks went down but i can see my mortar is like 3" thick .. i need more gravel so my mortar is thinner. also i forgot to brush on bond agent to underside of paver that is in contact with mortar for these first 9 blocks.. hope they hold.

bond between paver and 4" wide steal pool bond beam is made with PL 9000 (because this is the only product i could find that said it is for outdoor use for bonding between concrete & steel, and between concrete and plastic which is the stairs). this glue goes down in two beads, 3/8" thick.

after coping is set up and leveled, i put a monster block on top to weigh it down so glue doesn't move paver during cure process.

i'm leaving 3/8 to 1/2" gap for grouting. but i 'm not sure what product to use for grouting? i was thinking mortar in bag.. but i really want this project to be successful so am open to suggestions.

pictures to follow later.
 

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Pics would be great because of this is like any coping I have seen i think you are setting yourself up for problems in the future. The concrete poured around s pool is usually a integral part of the structure. Without it the walls are subject to loading from the outside due to water infiltration from above but more importantly, the concrete gives a lot of stuctural strength to the wall system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
it sounds like you are questioning the base under the paver and maybe are not realizing that this inground pool is NOT made with concrete, its made with steel walls.

the base:
the pool was installed professionally (someone else) and they back filled the excavation with 3/4" crush stoned since they knew i would be installing pavers. on top of the crush stone to within 1" of the pool bond beam (bond beam was about 6" above grade) i put down A-gravel and plate compacted in 4" lifts. the 1" left over is for the bedding material for pool decking and mortar for back end of pool coping. the final will be sloped 1deg away from pool.

the above was described to me by pro so i sure hope its correct :)
what was not mentioned was the jointing between pool coping so that's why i'm posting here to see if my plan is good/bad.
 

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Not talking about a concrete pool at all. That is a different style than I was thinking of and that is why I asked about pics.


I am not familiar enough with your style so won't get involved so as to not unintentionally misdirect you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i got a bit jammed up on the coping. two of my gaps ended up being super tight.. like 1/8" wide.. maybe a bit less? not sure how to joint those... parametric sand? liquid epoxy?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
no worries nap, its all new to me too :)

my dog was running up and down the non-gap filled pavers yesterday. they all held.
first test passed! ha
 

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this is to bump your thread but also looking for a bit of info on your situation as well.

in the top picture there is the ledge the stone and block are setting on. Is that steel and part of the wall? Is is simply a flat piece folded outward or is it a box of some sort (which would obviously increase it's strength and ability to resist deflection)?

is there some purpose to stack the stone on top of the block below it?

Personally I'm not sure I would like the squared edge of the top stone. Seems like doing a whale exit (that's where fat people like me kind of leap onto the edge of the pool on your belly and then you pull yourself out with your arms after that) might be a bit uncomfortable. A lower and rounded edge like just the bottom block seems like it would be better for that sort of exit but to me, it would also be more appealing as the resulting lines are simpler. Maybe round the edges of the top stone and eliminating the lower block?


anyway, more commentary than anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
that's right, just weighing it down while glue dries. the lower block is bull-nose coping, 1" overhang. i was told to keep the overhang to a minimum so that accessing the coping grove (on wall, under stone) to insert the winter cover wouldn't be troublesome. actually i don't know if 1" is a minimum or not but seemed like it was.

the bond beam is part of the steel pool wall.. you could say its folded steel, not a box. i was walking on the steel before i had paver on it, was completely solid with no bounce whatsoever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i'll probably be mortaring tomorrow. wanted to do it tonight but time is slipping away. unless i hear otherwise, its going to be mortar mix + bond additive in a cake bag. the mix will be a bit wet cause i need it to flow 2" to bottom of gap. i will still respect the water limit as instructions on mortar package but there is large range.. between 3.7 and 5.7L per 66lb bag.
 

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polymeric no.

i would keep the joints in that 3/8" range. you can use sanded grout, but for 3/8 to 3/4" i would mix it as dry as you can, pack it in well. i also run SS wire in bigger joints to help hold grout. you can swap out some water for latex fortifier (like sika latex-r).

another option is an epoxy grout. harder to use but holds well. a sanded grout can still get into 1/8" space, smaller than that the use non-sanded.

a good sealer should be used after grout drys 24-48hrs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
hmm.. better make sure i'm starting with the correct material. when i say mortar in a cake bag and then fill the gaps, i'm literally talking about mortar

http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/MortarMix.asp

it sounds like you're talking is grout.. do you mean this product?
http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/NonShrinkPrecisionGrout.asp
this grout can be mixed to a fluid state which is good for me except perhaps on the overhang cause i don't want it to fall into the pool so that portion of grouting might be a bit dry and put in by hand if possible. i'm not sure if this grout is good around pool though.
 

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DO NOT use the second product you linked to, its' an anchoring epoxy, and no matter how stiff you mis it, its' self-leveling. Not to mention, it's far too strong for the application. I wouldn't use any kind of grout that's intended for tile actually, as I doubt it would hold up as well as plain old mortar anyways.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
It's finding the right grout that is the trouble. What to buy? From where?

Ya when I read the typical application of the second product it seemed like a bad choice.

maybe big box stores don't sell what I need. Maybe landscape supply does? I.e where I got the coping stones from.
 

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if its subject to wet and freezing, plain mortar will likely fall apart. if you use mortar then maybe use some acrylic fortifier and then after it drys two coats of penetrating sealer to keep the water out.

sanded grouts are fine for outside. i used it on my 1/2" joints where temps in summer are 110+F and in winter we hit 20F. i put wire in the joints though. freezing water is bad, thus a good seal is needed, it will be fine.


as for the joint area that is over the water, a clay like mixture will work just fine, no wetter than that, force it into the joint, etc. do the full joint at once (dont do sections of each joint and come back to finish, etc), etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
this looks like it could work, sold from lowes:
MAPEI Keracolor™ S 10-lb Sanded Grout with Polymer

Keracolor™ S 10-lb Sanded Grout with Polymer

  • For grouting interior and exterior floors and walls
  • Suitable for dimensional stone, slate, granite, stone agglomerates and most types of ceramic, ceramic mosaic, quarry, brick paver, porcelain, and clay tiles
  • For medium joint widths from 1/8-in to 5/8-in (3mm to 16mm)
  • For application in submerged conditions (swimming pools, spas, water features, and fountains) once fully cured

https://www.lowes.ca/grout/mapei-ke...rout-with-polymer_g1333405.html?ProductSlot=2
 

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yes, the Mapei S grout should work. for the large gap joints best to mix it as dry as you can but still workable, packing it in. when its close to 1/2" joint i take SS wire and make a loop of it to fit into the middle of the joint while filling it, keeping ends of wire back from ends of joint by 1/4-3/8".

some 3" blue tape may help you on bottom side of joint that in over the water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SS wire is that same wire that us used to bind rebar together in a concrete pad? Cause I got lots of that!
 
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