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Any ideas on how to best attach plywood over windows on a Barndominium?
Steel structure
Thanks
Steel structure
Thanks
Plywood over windows in hurricane
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Pics?
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Pictures, absolutely. Whatever you install will be permanent, since it is a steel structure. Think about shutter dogs and the like. I am sure we can find a means to do it. Post pix.
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Ok, will post pics when I get to the house. Sorry should have thought about that. Will be a little later
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Speaking of shutters, why in hell don't the folks in hurricane prone areas install shutters to protect windows. Can humans get more ignorant than that? People living in rain prone areas don't take their gutter down after each rain and pitch those in the landfill.
There are a lot of reasons. Mostly having to do with cost, code and historical preservation ordinance.
Some owners feel permanent shutters are ugly. Like if you have a Victoria or Georgian brick house then you put some accordian or rollup over every opening just kills the look.
Sometimes the code makes it cost prohibitive. For example, instead of shutters some may opt to install impact windows instead. But an impact window is much more expensive, like $2000 an impact window vs $500 for a regular one. Plus the cost of installation. Many cities will not even allow impact windows to be installed incrementally, in other words, they won't let you change out two windows to impact and leave the other 18 alone so you can change it all over a period of time as your budget allows, it has to be changed in one shot. Changing out 20 impact windows and 3 sliding doors could easily be a 80000 project. Many do not know most impact windows are only rated up to category 3 storms.
If you live in an historical district and the preservation board is anal retentive they want to have a say in the look and feel of the home to keep the original style. Adding shutters takes away the historical loo and feel so they would make all kinds of demands to have the shutters be custom to blend in to the style and all of a sudden you are looking at super expensive custom shutters that's $1500 per covering instead of standard prefab $200 ones. Their objectives are usually at odds with development, yes in my district we actually have a few home owner intentionally left their home vacant and rot, because historical preservation won't let them tear it down and rebuild on their own lot, or to substantially remodel their existing, so the only way out is to let the building deteriorate to the point they can get code to declare it unsafe to inhabit, which then overrules historical preservation then you can tear it down LOL.
Then there are those who likes to play with their luck and think it will never hit directly.
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So in summary, it's back to " it just can't get much more ignorant than that, and we could probably safely add stupid to the description " as to why there is always a shortage of plywood, it's expensive and the landfills are full of it.
Well I am sure Home Depot loves it.
I think if the cities allow incremental install of shutters and impact windows and doors it would make a huge difference.
Plywood itself is not bad though you just have to reuse it. I have a few windows at a property that use plywood as shutters, I had hanger bolts on them spaced evenly and the plywood has predrilled mark holes I just put on and fasten with wingnuts. I don't care if it warps a little and I store them in a shed.
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I suspect you storing those is an exception rather than the rule.:thumbup1:
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There is no way I would ever even consider buying a house in an historical district. I would drive by and look at the historical details, but never buy.
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With a govt. grant the correct size I could do percent study of the USA historic house population in hurricane country and determine the usefulness of shutters that have been on some houses world wide for 300 years or more .
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Here is a couple of pictures of the building. There are a lot of kits and options available for wood frame homes but not for Barndominiums. I still need to do a little more investigating on the covering but think 1/2" plywood is minimum. It also is determined by fastner spacing, size, length and things of that nature. This house we're building has had the foundation engineered and an engineered building to meet windstorm spec. For those that have not done this it includes windows, doors and hardware to meet that spec.
So, the windows meet windstorm spec but are not impact rated windows so require a covering to be available in the event of a storm. Thought I would just throw this out there to see if anyone else on here has experience with covering on windows with steel support frame? Not really wanting a bunch of metal corrugated shutters on the front of windows permanently, as someone else mentioned. Not many people do that. You have a plan and implement that if a storm comes.
I am basically talking outloud trying to figure out the best looking and a strong cover that will work. What I am thinking is securing nutplates to the back of the C perlins inside the channel. Then on the outside would plug the holes with rubber plugs to match. If a storm comes remove plugs and install bolts into precut plywood. Wondering if anybody has done it this way? Would probably run this plan by our engineer to see if it will suffice when I'm done. Looking for ideas if any have experience with this.
Thanks
So, the windows meet windstorm spec but are not impact rated windows so require a covering to be available in the event of a storm. Thought I would just throw this out there to see if anyone else on here has experience with covering on windows with steel support frame? Not really wanting a bunch of metal corrugated shutters on the front of windows permanently, as someone else mentioned. Not many people do that. You have a plan and implement that if a storm comes.
I am basically talking outloud trying to figure out the best looking and a strong cover that will work. What I am thinking is securing nutplates to the back of the C perlins inside the channel. Then on the outside would plug the holes with rubber plugs to match. If a storm comes remove plugs and install bolts into precut plywood. Wondering if anybody has done it this way? Would probably run this plan by our engineer to see if it will suffice when I'm done. Looking for ideas if any have experience with this.
Thanks
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Our son would die for a Barndominium but for the present he almost has one when he and wife purchased a 1920 house with a 40x50 metal shop attached.
Things become more difficult when form precedes function, but being you're in the searching phase consider a look at Keyhole Hangers that could possibly be mounted permanently. Some are rated 20# each so 4 to the window should be plenty.
Things become more difficult when form precedes function, but being you're in the searching phase consider a look at Keyhole Hangers that could possibly be mounted permanently. Some are rated 20# each so 4 to the window should be plenty.
I think you may need real shutters and not plywood.
A couple of thoughts.
(1) Depends on the purpose(s) of the window coverings. Is it strictly to minimize window blow outs during a storm or is it also to lower your windstorm insurance premium for having "approved" storm protection? Plywood will not get your premium any lower. To receive a windstorm discount you need all openings covered by approved list of storm protection, 100%. If you cover 95% and leave a half pie shape piece of glass on a door not protected no reduction.
(2) You window glass pane is very close to the exterior, without any kind of recess. Actually from one of the pictures it looks like the window glass is proud of the wall. This makes plywood a weak protection. Most house windows have a recess of a few inches. Plywood flexes, you have a good size coconut shooting into a piece of 1/2" or even 3/4" plywood at 120mph, even if the plywood holds it will flex and if the piece of wood is only 1/4" from the glass the glass will break. I think you need something stiffer, like corrugated storm panels.
(3) Whatever you are willing to go through to secure a piece of plywood, you can adapt that to work for regular metal storm panels. Typical storm panels are made in 12' widths, varying lengths. They are secured to the wall either by having male 1/4" bolts sticking out and secured to the wall with wingnuts. Some would install H headers on the top rail so the fastening is easier, you just slide up into the header and fasten the bottom without having to get on a ladder. The issue there of course is the header and the bottom tracks are all visible permanently. At my last house I have a double french door and I hated the idea of the protruding male threaded bolts sticking out of the wall, so I drilled and set lead in anchors into the concrete wall, and capped them with flushed sidewalk bolts. When the storm comes I removed the sidewalk bolts, put on the panels and secure with sidewalk bolts. I have to say there is a tradeoff, with male threads sticking out, I can do the panels myself, with all female threads I cannot get the panels to hang on the wall first, and have to get someone to hold it while I drive in at least two sidewalk bolts. Your idea of using some concealed connections with plugs may work the same for storm panels.
(4) On the windows that do not have roof overhangs are you getting too much sun? If so you can consider a different strategy, such as using Bahamian style awnings that give you some sun protection, but can be lowered completely to cover your windows during a storm like a clamshell.
(5) You should also look into fabric coverings. There is a new resin fabric that is cat5 storm rated that is lightweight but can be placed over windows and doors. It requires a specific anchor to be used at a minimum spacing, but it's easy to put up. I looked into a bit a few years ago but there is no real "success stories" except for "lab footage suggested it CAN withstand cat5 storms" and I didn't go for it. But it may be an option to consider with more real life experiences today. My thinking is it does not really stop the window glass from breaking but will prevent the pressurization buildup once a window is out to cause the roof to be lifted off.
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A couple of thoughts.
(1) Depends on the purpose(s) of the window coverings. Is it strictly to minimize window blow outs during a storm or is it also to lower your windstorm insurance premium for having "approved" storm protection? Plywood will not get your premium any lower. To receive a windstorm discount you need all openings covered by approved list of storm protection, 100%. If you cover 95% and leave a half pie shape piece of glass on a door not protected no reduction.
(2) You window glass pane is very close to the exterior, without any kind of recess. Actually from one of the pictures it looks like the window glass is proud of the wall. This makes plywood a weak protection. Most house windows have a recess of a few inches. Plywood flexes, you have a good size coconut shooting into a piece of 1/2" or even 3/4" plywood at 120mph, even if the plywood holds it will flex and if the piece of wood is only 1/4" from the glass the glass will break. I think you need something stiffer, like corrugated storm panels.
(3) Whatever you are willing to go through to secure a piece of plywood, you can adapt that to work for regular metal storm panels. Typical storm panels are made in 12' widths, varying lengths. They are secured to the wall either by having male 1/4" bolts sticking out and secured to the wall with wingnuts. Some would install H headers on the top rail so the fastening is easier, you just slide up into the header and fasten the bottom without having to get on a ladder. The issue there of course is the header and the bottom tracks are all visible permanently. At my last house I have a double french door and I hated the idea of the protruding male threaded bolts sticking out of the wall, so I drilled and set lead in anchors into the concrete wall, and capped them with flushed sidewalk bolts. When the storm comes I removed the sidewalk bolts, put on the panels and secure with sidewalk bolts. I have to say there is a tradeoff, with male threads sticking out, I can do the panels myself, with all female threads I cannot get the panels to hang on the wall first, and have to get someone to hold it while I drive in at least two sidewalk bolts. Your idea of using some concealed connections with plugs may work the same for storm panels.
(4) On the windows that do not have roof overhangs are you getting too much sun? If so you can consider a different strategy, such as using Bahamian style awnings that give you some sun protection, but can be lowered completely to cover your windows during a storm like a clamshell.
(5) You should also look into fabric coverings. There is a new resin fabric that is cat5 storm rated that is lightweight but can be placed over windows and doors. It requires a specific anchor to be used at a minimum spacing, but it's easy to put up. I looked into a bit a few years ago but there is no real "success stories" except for "lab footage suggested it CAN withstand cat5 storms" and I didn't go for it. But it may be an option to consider with more real life experiences today. My thinking is it does not really stop the window glass from breaking but will prevent the pressurization buildup once a window is out to cause the roof to be lifted off.
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Shuttering the windows may be a great idea, but don't look for that metal to stay put in hurricane force winds. You have a parachute of thin material that will peel off once the wind gets under it. The term "barndominium" threw me a little. It's basically a red iron frame with metal overlay, so it is a typical metal storefront type building.
Not a bad idea. Doing the rubber plugs nicely could be a challenge. Probably you could find a decorative screw and rubber washer to put in there until the weather turns bad. Fixed bolts in the wall would be easy to seal with caulk, and loading the plywood would be easy, but more visible from the outside.
Will the steel siding be accessible from the inside? If so, you could just drill the hole, put a decorative screw/nut/rubber-washer to seal it and put in a long bolt and plywood when the weather forecast gets bad.
I can't speak to how solid the steel sheathing is.
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I searched for along time and could not find any kits for metal buildings covering windows in huricane zones. Lots of stuff for wood framed homes. For those that may be interested, here is my solution to covering windows in a metal building with plywood for huricane protection. I used 1/4"x20 stainless nutserts to secure the plywood to window frame. I started 6" from the edge and 16" centers and placed a nutsert around the window frame. On my particular barndominium build I have J channel around the window then the outer skins on top of that. I started by drilling a hole through three pieces for the nutsert to go in then drilled a large enough hole in the outer skin to to have the nutsert recessed and set flush under the outer skin and on the J trim and squeezed in the steel support. Installed a stainless screw with washer securing outer skin down and when storm comes remove and install plywood and reinstall hardware
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