[forcedreno2012]

This is long but please bear with me.

Have spent hours and hours researching different brands of units and I am really struggling with making a choice.

We have gotten quotes from local companies on carrier vs goodman.

2400 sq foot house single story in ms. Good insulation.

One guy was a price gouging fool who thinks people are idiots and are willing to pay more for a heat pump and ac install that they did for their brand new truck, yes it was that high.

The other compay has been fantastic, numerous visits, ready to talk at any time and even going so far as to lend tools for some other stuff. This company is less than a mile from the house and is partnered with a wholesaler that is right next door and has been in business for longer than I have been alive. I'm providing the background on this company so you can understand what I am dealing with. The expert (and he is an expert) has sized the system and even went so far as to dig out his ducolater and provide me with the correct duct sizing etc as we (diy) are doing the ducts at the same time. He will not give a preference on the brand of the system which I find refreshing as usually you would expect the company to push the high priced install.

Here is the dillema, we are going with a 14 or 15 seer unit. Apparently carrier no longer makes a 14 seer so I would have to go with the 15 for them. I can get either for the goodman. Obv goodman is cheaper. The wholesaler has also rec'd goodman and he sells both.

I know you get what you pay for and I know that there is a lot of negativity about goodman and yet a lot of the times they were not installed correctly or older units.

If the install is being done by a highly reputable company is it really that bad a thing to save $$ and go with the goodman unit? We have to replace both the heat pump and the outside ac.

And if you made it this far I commend you and thanks for your insight

Robyn

 

[digitalplumber]

Some here have often said that what matters more is the installation. Hence, the installer.

 

[Technow]

This is long but please bear with me.

Have spent hours and hours researching different brands of units and I am really struggling with making a choice.

We have gotten quotes from local companies on carrier vs goodman.

2400 sq foot house single story in ms. Good insulation.

One guy was a price gouging fool who thinks people are idiots and are willing to pay more for a heat pump and ac install that they did for their brand new truck, yes it was that high.

The other compay has been fantastic, numerous visits, ready to talk at any time and even going so far as to lend tools for some other stuff. This company is less than a mile from the house and is partnered with a wholesaler that is right next door and has been in business for longer than I have been alive. I'm providing the background on this company so you can understand what I am dealing with. The expert (and he is an expert) has sized the system and even went so far as to dig out his ducolater and provide me with the correct duct sizing etc as we (diy) are doing the ducts at the same time. He will not give a preference on the brand of the system which I find refreshing as usually you would expect the company to push the high priced install.

Here is the dillema, we are going with a 14 or 15 seer unit. Apparently carrier no longer makes a 14 seer so I would have to go with the 15 for them. I can get either for the goodman. Obv goodman is cheaper. The wholesaler has also rec'd goodman and he sells both.

I know you get what you pay for and I know that there is a lot of negativity about goodman and yet a lot of the times they were not installed correctly or older units.

If the install is being done by a highly reputable company is it really that bad a thing to save $$ and go with the goodman unit? We have to replace both the heat pump and the outside ac.

And if you made it this far I commend you and thanks for your insight

Robyn

Carrier does not make a 14 Seer unit however certain combinations will give you 14Seer. I install carrier/bryant/payne and can give you what you seek, however, you can find some bubba to install you a goodman for less....I quit offering goodman in my area because their customer service sucks (it all flows downhill...they suck to me which flows downhill to the consumer (you) however you dont care i wasn't supported by my distributor..Its my name on the line)

 

[yuri]

I prefer the Carrier and especially the Bryant which they own but seems to be a notch better than the Carrier. Always found parts easy to get for them and tech support. They and York and Trane make some of the largest industrial chillers and HVAC units in the world. Carrier has very deep pockets for research/development and Lennox. Goodman owns the low end builders grade units market with no frills units and cheaper construction in my experience so I don't really like them unless price is the main objective. You do get what you pay for and should check the sound db ratings of their units and you will start to see where the quality gets cut on some brands.

 

[carmon]

I agree ....

 

[forcedreno2012]

I give up,

Go with Carrier, I search and see lots of carrier issue posts, bad reviews etc. Go with Trane, look here lots of Trane issue posts, go with Goodman had em for years..don't go with Goodman. Goodman is okay if its newer...no they suck no matter when they were made and their service is bad.

Get a good installer and not bubba but dont pay for a service plan

How the does anyone make a decision?

Screw it!

Buying a window unit and kero heater.


End rant.... thanks for all of your input. I really do appreciate it.
Not usually one for waffling but this is a biggy to us and we are stuck.

 

[oh'mike]

You will always find more bad reviews on an extremely popular brand-----so don't over research this---



All the top brands are good----use an installer that is going to be there for service when needed and you will be fine-----

 

[creeper]

Don't forget to negotiate parts AND labour into your contract. Around here Carrier/ Bryant offers 10 years on both

 

[mrairflow]

personally I would prefer the carrier

 

[Chimmy]

TRANE by far is a superior brand per consumer affairs and me.

TRANE is the old GE and is the only company that actually manufactures their own compressors! the rest use generics as Copeland, Bristol Techumseh etc.
As are the circuit boards usually Texas instruments or RobertShaw grayson etc
Lennox and Carrier do have many oddball proprietary devices that tend to be crappy and given to delaers first then everyone else in season! so truck stock repairs with universal replacemnts will be less with these 2 brands,if noyt a TRANE I would go Rheemor Ruud or Goodman not the Carriers BDP or Lennox that is for sure! And as for efficincy the higher the more fragile and complex/costly it will be to maintain /repair. You are far better off investing in ductwork 1st.

 

[Chimmy]

And the big hub bub about sizing units is way overblown

I defy anyone to show me a home or building where 400-500 sq ft per ton wont work or be where they end up!! there are only 1-2-2.5-3-3.5 ton units and in 1/2 ton increments, and with ducting you wont ever send 4" to anything but a bathroom and ^ to a room and bigger to the trunks, its really not a myriad of options and if the zone controls shiut off 1/2 a house at a time how do they size those? undersized! they cannnot run both zones simultaneously!

 

[Doc Holliday]

I defy anyone to show me a home or building where 400-500 sq ft per ton wont work or be where they end up!! there are only 1-2-2.5-3-3.5 ton units and in 1/2 ton increments, and with ducting you wont ever send 4" to anything but a bathroom and ^ to a room and bigger to the trunks, its really not a myriad of options and if the zone controls shiut off 1/2 a house at a time how do they size those? undersized! they cannnot run both zones simultaneously!

Ingersoll Rand owns Trane.

Secondly, zoning is just that, zone.

Thirdly, install trumps brand any day.

 

[beenthere]

I defy anyone to show me a home or building where 400-500 sq ft per ton wont work or be where they end up!! there are only 1-2-2.5-3-3.5 ton units and in 1/2 ton increments, and with ducting you wont ever send 4" to anything but a bathroom and ^ to a room and bigger to the trunks, its really not a myriad of options and if the zone controls shiut off 1/2 a house at a time how do they size those? undersized! they cannnot run both zones simultaneously!

Using 400 to 500 sq ft per ton will usually over size the A/C. Only a few areas in the USA will need that kind of sizing. There are many houses with A/Cs that come out to 1 ton per 1,000 sq ft. In my area many newer homes are only 750 to 880 sq ft per ton.

Trane and Copeland own a joint venture plant that makes the scroll compressors for Trane. Guess that makes it a half generic compressor.


PS. Not real far from Doc is a home that was build to be thermally efficient, it is sized out at 2,000 sq ft per ton.

 

[beenthere]

Force. You can find bad reviews for any brand. Poor sizing and or install practices cause most of those bad reviews. Along with poor service after the sell/install. Ask any company your thinking of using, how many service techs they have, and how many regular customers they have.

You might want to make sure you are getting a VS blower air handler, not just an air handler with an, ECM blower. The VS will do much better at humidity control in the summer.

 

[yuri]

Beenthere is absolutely correct. You should be talking to us and looking at what features you want and what your desires for the system are. Not just brand name and you only hear the negative reports and every brand has problems, some just have worse problems. Where you live and humidity removal/control and how quiet the units are huge concerns for some people not the brand name. You have 3 tiers of equipment quality with the major brands ( actually 4 if you count builders grade). I tell my customers the car analagy. Chevy Cavalier, Malibu, Buick or Cadillac and see what they drive and what quality level they prefer and what features they want. If you spend $1000 more initially but keep the units for at least 10-15 yrs it really only costs you $75-100/yr to own better quality units and much better comfort. 98% of my customers have no problem with that once they understand what they are getting for their $$.

 

[digitalplumber]

Beenthere is absolutely correct. You should be talking to us and looking at what features you want and what your desires for the system are. Not just brand name and you only hear the negative reports and every brand has problems, some just have worse problems. Where you live and humidity removal/control and how quiet the units are huge concerns for some people not the brand name. You have 3 tiers of equipment quality with the major brands ( actually 4 if you count builders grade). I tell my customers the car analagy. Chevy Cavalier, Malibu, Buick or Cadillac and see what they drive and what quality level they prefer and what features they want. If you spend $1000 more initially but keep the units for at least 10-15 yrs it really only costs you $75-100/yr to own better quality units and much better comfort. 98% of my customers have no problem with that once they understand what they are getting for their $$.

Thats the hard part for us consumers, since we are not smart enough to understand all of the features. Add to that the commissioned sales tech and well, I am glad there are sites like this and guys like you all that are willing to discuss these things openly with us commoners!

:thumbsup:

 

[ben's plumbing]

you are way overthinking this....call a trusted installer in your area one who has been around and ask him for his opinion and what he sales,and services, go with his suggestions..ben sr

 

[yuri]

You would be surprised who has money and is willing to spend it and what their values are. I can make more $$ selling to the average working class consummer who has a nice house, not in debt, appreciates quality, wants a quiet unit and lives a conservative lifestyle than the rich money grubbing name dropping arzeholes. Given the information a lot of people want quieter smoother units and these folks drive Buicks, Hondas, Toyotas and appreciate quality and don't just buy the cheapest thing that gets the job done.

 

[Marty1Mc]

Thats the hard part for us consumers, since we are not smart enough to understand all of the features. Add to that the commissioned sales tech and well, I am glad there are sites like this and guys like you all that are willing to discuss these things openly with us commoners!

:thumbsup:

I agree there is a lot to learn. What I am seeing is the manual J that is being run scares me. I have found that I need to ask questions about it and the parameters being used.

I have a 3.5 ton unit outside for approx 1800 sq ft and the manual J is telling various contractors a range from a low of 1.5ton to a high of 3.0 ton. That is a pretty large range and quite confusing. Add the bias of "what they sell" and it's hard to tell what to do.

I decided to learn a whole lot more before making a decision. I found the manual J parameters are key and has a great deal to do with variation.

 

[digitalplumber]

I agree there is a lot to learn. What I am seeing is the manual J that is being run scares me. I have found that I need to ask questions about it and the parameters being used.

I have a 3.5 ton unit outside for approx 1800 sq ft and the manual J is telling various contractors a range from a low of 1.5ton to a high of 3.0 ton. That is a pretty large range and quite confusing. Add the bias of "what they sell" and it's hard to tell what to do.

I decided to learn a whole lot more before making a decision. I found the manual J parameters are key and has a great deal to do with variation.

In my case, I found the manual J the contractor did to be wrong. Well let me rephrase that, not to my likings. My house in houston texas it is 1800 up and 1800 down. House was built 1998 and we are first owner. House was suppose to be one of those certified homes for sealing by light company, even have a certificate. But we have found many things not done by builder. When we approached the local energy provider then, they said they could not inspect all homes and hoped builders did it right.

In a nutshell, you know what Houston weather is like, the upstairs unit would run almost all morning from noon to 6. Yes I understand a unit needs to run to remove humidity, but it never would make things comfortable nor cycle on the not so extreme days.

Got the buillder to replace both units with 4 ton Rheem units and equivalent blowers. No AC issues, hot and extreme days are handled well. The only gripe we have is heating the downstairs and the location of the return air downstairs in the ceiling.

So I think contrary to what is said about manual j's. you sometimes need a contractor that will listen to your wants.

If I were you, I would install the most efficient system that will work the best on the MOST extreme days you have, not the average.

Just me.