[Lutron]

Now there is a chance this has been discussed before, however I am still learning how to utilize this site, so I apologize if this is the case.

Now I understand there are several variations of plastic boxes, such as Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC), Fiberglass reinforced polyester and Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS) and likely that is the case with metal boxes as well.

Aside from metal boxes needing to be properly grounded and some metal boxes being more expensive than traditional plastic boxes, are there any benefits from having a metal box compared to a plastic box?

On that note, seeing as metal boxes need to be properly grounded, generally speaking is a ground screw provided as in the case of this example? If I could, I'd provide a link, but at this time I am unable to.

 

[Arrow3030]

Plastic boxes are generally faster and easier to install as they usually don't require additional fittings and grounding screws. I prefer Carlon (usually blue or black) over bake lite (usually brown). Metal boxes are more universal in their application as they accept (all?) wiring methods. It's good to ask these questions as familiarizing yourself with available products and their uses are a HUGE part of electrical work.
I'd recommend downloading a catalog on the Arlington website and flipping thru the pages. It's a great resource.

 

[Colbyt]

IMO, speaking as a non-licensed person, the cheap blue boxes distort when nailed on. The fiber reinforced ones don't and the metal ones are more trouble than they are worth. Possible exception might be for a ceiling fan box.

 

[griz]

Plastic boxes are just fine if installed correctly.

Metal boxes are for conduit applications, commercial work and when a fire rating is necessary.

 

[Lutron]

Plastic boxes are generally faster and easier to install as they usually don't require additional fittings and grounding screws. I prefer Carlon (usually blue or black) over bake lite (usually brown). Metal boxes are more universal in their application as they accept (all?) wiring methods. It's good to ask these questions as familiarizing yourself with available products and their uses are a HUGE part of electrical work.
I'd recommend downloading a catalog on the Arlington website and flipping thru the pages. It's a great resource.

Thank you for the information and if I may, I'd like to ask you a specific question. In the first sentence, you mention fittings. By fittings do you mean where the knock out spots are?

Thomas and Betts both their Steel City and Carlon lines, Hubbel Raco, Cooper Industries Eaton Crouse Hinds, Allied Moulding and Pentair Erico Caddy are the brands I am familiar with. So learning about Arlington is great to know.


ColbyT: Distortion "seems" to be an issue that I've read about as well as the "swing arms" or tabs also seem to be prone to breakage in addition. Certainly metal boxes seem to require more steps, but I am curious if these will have longer longevity.

 

[Arrow3030]

I was referring to knockout fittings, mud rings, bracket or no bracket, exposed work covers...the list goes on. It's part of why metal boxes are much more universal than plastic, there's many options.
I like Arlington because they have some great options for boxes and finishes for siding, FP plastic boxes and all the usual stuff as well.

 

[Lutron]

I was referring to knockout fittings, mud rings, bracket or no bracket, exposed work covers...the list goes on. It's part of why metal boxes are much more universal than plastic, there's many options.
I like Arlington because they have some great options for boxes and finishes for siding, FP plastic boxes and all the usual stuff as well.

Seriously, thank you for providing information about the Arlington Industries company. There is some plenty of helpful information there and what a wide selection as well. +1, nice work.

Specifically what I am about to install is a ceiling fan/light switch. Just wasn't sure what would be a better option, as I wanted to consider my options.

 

[gregzoll]

Ceiling fan, I would use the metal box with the expandable bar, if you are unable to access from above. You will have to cut out the existing box with a multi-tool. Some boxes have a set of tangs on the nailing side. The only way to find out which side is the side nailed ot a joist or stud, is to use a thin bladed Putty knife, while the power is off to that circuit. The side that you cannot get past, is the nailed side.

 

[Lutron]

Ceiling fan, I would use the metal box with the expandable bar, if you are unable to access from above. You will have to cut out the existing box with a multi-tool. Some boxes have a set of tangs on the nailing side. The only way to find out which side is the side nailed ot a joist or stud, is to use a thin bladed Putty knife, while the power is off to that circuit. The side that you cannot get past, is the nailed side.

Thank you for that information. Makes sense to use a steel ceiling fan supported box given static weight of fans and when they are dynamic.

Since the subject was brought up, do non metallic push in connectors need to be bought separately or is this case by case with different manufacturers?

As an example, this is the type of push in connector I am referencing.

 

[gregzoll]

I always pull those out and use standard NM clamps. The "Smart Box" units work a lot better and do not need the bar. These just use a standard in box NM clamp like the Blue Carlon's. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Madison-...th-50-lb-Ceiling-Box-Support-MSBRND/203343429

 

[Lutron]

Gregzoll, if I am understanding correctly, do you mean you pull out the plastic NM connectors and use "standard" NM clamps? If you don't mind me asking, do these NM clamps hold the wires better or something to that effect?

Thank you for mentioning the Madison Electric Products brand, never heard of them either.

 

[Arrow3030]

I use to use the expandable bracket box and still do somtimes. Now I prefer a saddle type ceiling fan box. Google ceiling fan saddle box. I almost never use pancakes or the ones that drill up at an angle. All are acceptable*, it's just depends on what works for the application.
*pancakes have terrible box fill capacity

 

[gregzoll]

I use to use the expandable bracket box and still do somtimes. Now I prefer a saddle type ceiling fan box. Google ceiling fan saddle box. I almost never use pancakes or the ones that drill up at an angle. All are acceptable*, it's just depends on what works for the application.
*pancakes have terrible box fill capacity

I like the Smart Boxes, because you do not have to screw around with making a bigger hole to tighten the bar. The screws on the side are long enough to hold on. I usually swap them out for a better screw, then the ones that come with them.

 

[gregzoll]

Gregzoll, if I am understanding correctly, do you mean you pull out the plastic NM connectors and use "standard" NM clamps? If you don't mind me asking, do these NM clamps hold the wires better or something to that effect?

Thank you for mentioning the Madison Electric Products brand, never heard of them either.

With the standard NM clips that you use on the metal boxes, you do not have to worry about air gaps. Those plastic inserts usually get tossed somewhere on my workbench.

The Smart Boxes have worked wonders when it comes to putting in a retrofit box, when you have to adjust for say GypRock or Drywall over Plaster & Lathe.

The single that I had laying around, I ended up using it to attach my ethernet runs Keystones on the plate. You can do more with the Smart Boxes with less effort, than you can do with the New Construction boxes.

 

[Jim Port]

I like the Smart Boxes, because you do not have to screw around with making a bigger hole to tighten the bar. The screws on the side are long enough to hold on. I usually swap them out for a better screw, then the ones that come with them.

You do not need to make the opening larger to install the spreader bar. Also the Smart box style has been tested and listed with those screws for the intended use. Changing them out removes that listing.

Also the plastic NM clamps are listed and approved for the use, even with the gaps that you find so troubling.

 

[Lutron]

With the standard NM clips that you use on the metal boxes, you do not have to worry about air gaps. Those plastic inserts usually get tossed somewhere on my workbench.

The Smart Boxes have worked wonders when it comes to putting in a retrofit box, when you have to adjust for say GypRock or Drywall over Plaster & Lathe.

The single that I had laying around, I ended up using it to attach my ethernet runs Keystones on the plate. You can do more with the Smart Boxes with less effort, than you can do with the New Construction boxes.

Thank you for the response. At first the terms "new construction" and "old work" had required me to compare the two products to see I the difference, but I have a pretty good idea what that entails now.

Seems that smart boxes are versatile, so I'll keep that in mind.

Jim Port: Interesting information you have shared as well. Thanks for sharing what you provided.

 

[Jim Port]

The only way to find out which side is the side nailed ot a joist or stud, is to use a thin bladed Putty knife, while the power is off to that circuit. The side that you cannot get past, is the nailed side.

You can tap on the ceiling and hear which side is next to the framing. You can also push up on one side to determine where the framing member is.

 

[samjg1]

Seriously, thank you for providing information about the Arlington Industries company. There is some plenty of helpful information there and what a wide selection as well. +1, nice work.

Specifically what I am about to install is a ceiling fan/light switch. Just wasn't sure what would be a better option, as I wanted to consider my options.

If you're replacing an existing box with a ceiling fan box, I'd use the kind with the bar that expands to stretch between the ceiling joists:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingh...fit-Ceiling-Fan-Saf-T-Brace-0110000/204845572

If you're putting in a new box where there was none before, I'd use a saddle box or a pancake box mounted directly to the joist. The fan is then also screwed directly to the joist.
Although the pancake box has very little capacity, you should have enough room in the fan canopy for the wires and splices. Personally, my choice would be the saddle box.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingh...model-Ceiling-Fan-Saf-T-Pan-0103600/204845541

For the switch, I'd use a smart box:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Madison-...g-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box-MSB1G/203340257

 

[Jim Port]

Although the pancake box has very little capacity, you should have enough room in the fan canopy for the wires and splices. Personally, my choice would be the saddle box.

The canopy only counts for additional space if the capacity is marked on the canopy. I have never seen a canopy with the capacity marked.

 

[Lutron]

If you're replacing an existing box with a ceiling fan box, I'd use the kind with the bar that expands to stretch between the ceiling joists:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingh...fit-Ceiling-Fan-Saf-T-Brace-0110000/204845572

If you're putting in a new box where there was none before, I'd use a saddle box or a pancake box mounted directly to the joist. The fan is then also screwed directly to the joist.
Although the pancake box has very little capacity, you should have enough room in the fan canopy for the wires and splices. Personally, my choice would be the saddle box.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingh...model-Ceiling-Fan-Saf-T-Pan-0103600/204845541

For the switch, I'd use a smart box:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Madison-...g-Adjustable-Depth-Device-Box-MSB1G/203340257

Thanks for the advise. Especially with the last link, as that product does appear to be much simpler and more secure to install.

Jim Port: Interestingly enough I was about to ask if canopies had capacity information on them, thanks for that information as well.