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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Below is a Figure from one of the PWF Guide's and I don't know what the material between the "Footplate" and the Pressure Treated Wood (See Yellow/Red Arrow) and how does the Footplate (Gray/Green Arrow) attach itself to that material.


Thanks.

Ken L

Note to moderator(s): I thought I already posted this question, but can't find it on the Forums, so if this is a duplicate, please erase the other one as I can't find it. Thanks. KDL


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retired framer
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The green arrow looks like a 2x6 bottom plate setting om a 2x10 to make the footprint bigger,
the yellow arrow look like you just build a stud wall with treated plywood sheeting with something like a dimple board on the outside of that.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So for the garage where there will be a slab, I will have to dig a wide enough trench so a person can nail together the wall sections of the PWF and once the PWF is constructed, fill it with the same gravel/stone material that is being used for the footer, and that material will fill the stud cavities? I presume for that part of the PWF, I won't need insulation (unlike for the crawl space areas of the house expansion)? I understand the need for gravel on the outside of the PWF to help with drainage, but for the inside of the PWF, I though the fill that was dug out for the foundation would go back. Is my new understanding correct?

Thanks again!

Ken L
 

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It says 16d face nail in studs. Probably same into the foot plates and rest is by gravity. IMO, I would never use lumber below grade, treated or rated, unless the area was desert conditions. It shows gravel and sump pump but gravel can fill with silt over time. Water pressures make it IMPOSSIBLE to contain it. This forum has few posts where wood foundation failed. Internet also many examples. Even 2x12 is only nominal 12" and lumber can crack and split. Lumber studs and sheathing can fail. Nails pull out from lumber. Screws unscrew.
IMO, that is not a diagram for a full size garage but maybe a small shed. Earth also moves and gravel pit can move. Slab may sink. Why bother? Internet is full of interesting/innovative ideas but that is not intuitive idea even for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Permanent Wood Foundations have been well accepted for over 35 years. There have been more than a few houses in my town that have used them, one back in 1986 and it was for a full basement, and it's still standing.

Ken L
 

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Permanent Wood Foundations have been well accepted for over 35 years. There have been more than a few houses in my town that have used them, one back in 1986 and it was for a full basement, and it's still standing.

Ken L
For those of us that have not seen them, it is a strange concept.
My concern is the treatment was different in 1986.
They changed the chemicals is 2003, 04 and today we add a tape on joists for a deck because the new treatment just doesn't stand up for the time the older treatment would.
So I would be looking for successes after 2004 and see how they are standing up.
That said, there are products that can be added to keep water out but that would add another fairly expensive job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I wasn't aware of that. I'm not considering going with precast concrete walls. What i'm trying to eliminate is the need for concrete forms on the project. That would require even more space be dug up in the back yard, and I want to minimize the amount of space that needs to be dug up.

Does anyone know if I were to go with the precast concrete walls, how much space on either side of the wall would be needed for a crew to install the panels. I know that the crushed stone for the footing will need to be according to code, but the space for the work crew will obviously need to be much wider. Thanks.

Ken L.
 

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Usually 4 feet of clearance. As long as the panels are less than 8 feet high. Need room for swinging the panels and a guy on each side. Even 4 feet can be tight when your down there.

Have you considered ICF forms? Insulation on both sides if you need to you can put fiberglass mesh over the form and then mud them in for a stucco like finish. With these forms you could assemble most of it your self and all you might need is help getting the steel in the forms.
20' pieces are heavy. All of the concrete work can be done form the inside.

Just a thought how are you going to dig and pour the footings? They will need as much room as the panels.

To me precast would only be a consideration if they were building and installing the precast.
Other wise you have to get another contractor.
 

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I wasn't aware of that. I'm not considering going with precast concrete walls. What i'm trying to eliminate is the need for concrete forms on the project. That would require even more space be dug up in the back yard, and I want to minimize the amount of space that needs to be dug up.

Does anyone know if I were to go with the precast concrete walls, how much space on either side of the wall would be needed for a crew to install the panels. I know that the crushed stone for the footing will need to be according to code, but the space for the work crew will obviously need to be much wider. Thanks.

Ken L.
How tall are the walls and how deep is the frost level?
 

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retired framer
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The walls will only be 4' tall which gets below the frost line in this area.

Ken L
I don't see a difference with wood or concrete. With both you need width for footing drainage, sheets of plywood and the danger of dirt sloughing would be the same.
But if you did a block wall you could do the footing and drain before the wall was built and do the block work from the inside.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I understand the need to include the width needed for the footing, but is there a need to dig any more for the outside of a precast concrete foundation wall that is 4' high? From the videos I have watched so far for installing these walls, being able to work on the inside of the walls is needed (so having a 4' wide "trench" for the garage will be needed, be so far I don't see anyone who stands on the outside of the wall to maneuver it in place. All of the work is done on the inside. Or am I missing something? And since the floor will be a concrete slab, would the ground on both sides be filled in at the same time (i.e. say the first 5' of space on the inside is filled in, then the first 5' of space on the outside, then the next 5' for both inside and outside, and so on) so the walls do not shift under any pressure from the soil?

Thanks again.

Ken L
 

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I understand the need to include the width needed for the footing, but is there a need to dig any more for the outside of a precast concrete foundation wall that is 4' high? From the videos I have watched so far for installing these walls, being able to work on the inside of the walls is needed (so having a 4' wide "trench" for the garage will be needed, be so far I don't see anyone who stands on the outside of the wall to maneuver it in place. All of the work is done on the inside. Or am I missing something? And since the floor will be a concrete slab, would the ground on both sides be filled in at the same time (i.e. say the first 5' of space on the inside is filled in, then the first 5' of space on the outside, then the next 5' for both inside and outside, and so on) so the walls do not shift under any pressure from the soil?

Thanks again.

Ken L
That would depend on the product. if it were used for a basement it would be filled on one side only so you would have to check with the supplier.
If it is a garage you might not care about waterproofing or drainage on the outside .
So you might only need another ft or so wider than the footing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That would depend on the product. if it were used for a basement it would be filled on one side only so you would have to check with the supplier.
If it is a garage you might not care about waterproofing or drainage on the outside .
So you might only need another ft or so wider than the footing.
Though the OP was about the foundation for the attached garage,there is also an extra room being added to the house as well. It will NOT be ventilated and though attached to the house, there will be no cutting of the existing house foundation to enter the crawlspace. After inspection of the foundation walls is done (before the floor is installed - I have already contacted the Building Inspector about this specific point) to ensure they are to code, including insulation installed, the floor joists and sub-floor will be installed. At that point there will be no way to enter or use the crawlspace. Yes, there will be polyethylene sheets on the ground,covered by stone since there will not be a concrete floor on the bottom. The floor beams and joists will help keep the walls from pushing in when the backfill is put in place for the room portion of the foundation.

I still don't know what way to keep the walls in place for the garage since there needs to be ground along the inside of the foundation walls to pour the stone then the concrete on.

Ken L
 

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Though the OP was about the foundation for the attached garage,there is also an extra room being added to the house as well. It will NOT be ventilated and though attached to the house, there will be no cutting of the existing house foundation to enter the crawlspace. After inspection of the foundation walls is done (before the floor is installed - I have already contacted the Building Inspector about this specific point) to ensure they are to code, including insulation installed, the floor joists and sub-floor will be installed. At that point there will be no way to enter or use the crawlspace. Yes, there will be polyethylene sheets on the ground,covered by stone since there will not be a concrete floor on the bottom. The floor beams and joists will help keep the walls from pushing in when the backfill is put in place for the room portion of the foundation.

I still don't know what way to keep the walls in place for the garage since there needs to be ground along the inside of the foundation walls to pour the stone then the concrete on.

Ken L
How big will the crawl space be? I would want a hole in the house foundation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The crawlspace will be 24x27. It would not only require cutting a hole in the existing foundation, but digging out underneath the existing floor of the house. This part of existing house has no crawlspace. It was originally supposed to be a screened in porch. The floor joists are above a concrete slab supported by a 4' foundation wall.

Ken L
 

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The crawlspace will be 24x27. It would not only require cutting a hole in the existing foundation, but digging out underneath the existing floor of the house. This part of existing house has no crawlspace. It was originally supposed to be a screened in porch. The floor joists are above a concrete slab supported by a 4' foundation wall.

Ken L
You are just a whole bundle of fun :giggle: . So that room has no foundation?
 
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