[Laughingchi]

Hi all. I recently inherited a house and storms last week flooded the basement with 8" of groundwater. Augered out the drain & water receeded but now having problems with the furnace. It's a Payne 80 Plus, the inside label says the model is a 395CAV024070. I can find nothing on it. Online schematics show a resemblance to Bryant PG8 furnace. My question is this: When I try to start the furnace the blower starts in short bursts, a clicking noise (sounds like a relay) is coming from what I believe is the control board and a red LED is blinking on & off on the side of the control board. (it does not get to the part of the startup cycle where the draft inducer turns on or the gas flows, just the main blower trying to start) Presumably the lower 8" of the furnace was immersed in the groundwater overnight. Any insight/suggestions would be appreciated. Replacing the furnace is not a viable option as funds are limited. Lookingh at possible layoff. Thanks in advance.

 

[qbert]

Test to make sure tstat is closed and calling for heat, check all wiring loose connections test limits and sensors (aux limits) if all is good then i would say bad circuit board. I would test all first to be sure unless you like to spend money on a guess

 

[Laughingchi]

Payne Furnace Problem

Thanks, I am bright enough to have the thermostat calling for heat (but I guess you couldn't know that LoL) the board has a blinking LED. Is there a way to pull codes from it (like a car) or is special equipment needed to read it? What confuses me is the blower tryoing to start out-of sequence. Seems like the draft inducer should start and the fire light before the blower comes on?

Thanks

 

[beenthere]

If you have the thermostat turned to heat, and set high enough to call for heat when you turn the power on to the furnace.
That furnace is suppose to run the blower for 90 seconds before it will go back to normal operation.

 

[kenmac]

The LED ( blink )codes should be on the blower door of the furnace

 

[texas115115]

control board

Control board is the most likly problem. A 65 to 75 dollor service call to know for sure. Where I live you cant buy a control board with out a liense. Good luck

 

[Laughingchi]

The LED ( blink )codes should be on the blower door of the furnace

I wish they were. Nothing pertaining to the codes on upper or lower doors. Any thoughts on where I could download them? Thanks

Control board is the most likly problem. A 65 to 75 dollor service call to know for sure. Where I live you cant buy a control board with out a liense. Good luck

If I can't get a copy of the "blink codes" (if the control board is blinking codes at me and not just a malfunction) I'd rather put the money into the board rather than a service call (I'm also rather stubborn and am used to fixing things myself, perhaps a serious flaw in my nature :yes. Looks like the control board might just be available online for $100- $250 depending if I can get a match for the part number. Sadly, I am slowly coming to the same conclusion that the control board may be shot. Maybe I'll tear the board apart and see if there is a fried connection somewhere, I read that is a common occurance with this furnace. This is new ground for me, kinda wish the house would go away- with all it's headaches LoL. Why can't they just build good reliable furnaces anymore, all this high efficiency garbage ups the repair costs and lessens the reliability IMHO. The furnace in my house (not the inherited one) is literally 100 years old this year. It's a coal conversion with a natural gas burner installed in the ash door. Probably not very efficient, but it just keeps on doing what it is supposed to do year after year and thats what really counts. Thanks Guys. :wink:

 

[beenthere]

And cost you 3 to 4 times as much to heat with. As a new furnace would.

Some of those old conversions. If they had an AFUE rating. Would be about a 30.

 

[Laughingchi]

And cost you 3 to 4 times as much to heat with. As a new furnace would.

Some of those old conversions. If they had an AFUE rating. Would be about a 30.

Matter of personal preference I'm sure. Myself, I'd rather spend the money on insulation and keep the old furnace (and its reliability). :wink:

 

[beenthere]

Tightening up a home, and adding insulation will and does save money.

But, the furnace still uses 3 to 4 times as much fuel as it needs to.
Thats not a personal opinion. Thats a reality.

Lots of plain Jane 80% furnaces out, that are just as reliable as that old clonker.

I converted alot of coal furnaces and boilers over to gas or oil.
A good number of them are still running with their original conversion burner.

Have gone back to some of them. And installed a new furnace or boiler.
And the heating bills always drop at least 60%.

Have never had anyone complain about saving $4,000 to $8,000 bucks in 10 years or less.

 

[yuri]

We have some bl**dy old 40+ yr old Furnasman units where I live an honestly you think someone in the family died when they have to replace one. People get "sentimental" over their furnaces and we need to respect that. LOL:tooth:

 

[beenthere]

:laughing: Lol...

 

[Laughingchi]

We have some bl**dy old 40+ yr old Furnasman units where I live an honestly you think someone in the family died when they have to replace one. People get "sentimental" over their furnaces and we need to respect that. LOL:tooth:

Not too sentimental here (well maybe just a bit), just practical. A high performance furnace made to todays standards takes maintenance of all the expensive dodads to keep it working. The Payne can't even pull a decent draft on its own (needs an inducer motor) and the hot surface ignitor was a pain to locate and replace last winter. All I'm sayin is that I don't like cold feet (or anything else cold) and my old pilot light coal conversion just keeps crankin away without giving me any trouble. All it asks of me is to fill the oil cups once in awhile. Now if the Payne had a pilot light there would likely be alot less corrosion in the furnace as it helps keep it warm and dry. Probably can't even get a furnace these days with a pilot light anymore. I'd trade the Payne in a New York Minute for another coal conversion like I have in my basement. Course it's the size of a small car and I don't know how in the world I'd get it down there if I did! :laughing:

Good news guys, I just found an online diagnostic chart for the codes the control board is blinking at me. After I head over tonight and check the codes out maybe I'll know what the furnace is trying to tell me is wrong. :wink:

 

[beenthere]

Actually. Either ICP and or UTC did have a 78% with a pilot and draft inducer.
The pilots sometimes caused the heat exchanger to rust out.

 

[yuri]

I like the feel but not the cost of the old oil/coal "RADIANT" heat forced air furnaces. Radiated so much heat that you never felt the cold, plus it never shut off.:laughing:

 

[beenthere]

And fuel was cheap when they installed them.

No one cared if an oil burner used 2000 gallons to heat a 1600 sq ft home when it was $0.05 a gallon.

 

[HvacWiz]

Being from a area that has had numerous floods over the last several years ,you are more than likely going to have to replace your circuit board and possibly the blower motor as well.

 

[hvaclover]

Test to make sure tstat is closed and calling for heat, check all wiring loose connections test limits and sensors (aux limits) if all is good then i would say bad circuit board. I would test all first to be sure unless you like to spend money on a guess

Gee, sitting in 8' water and you tell him to check the stat and limits...where do they come from?:huh:

 

[qbert]

Gee, sitting in 8' water and you tell him to check the stat and limits...where do they come from?:huh:

Where i come from you make sure of a problem although it may be obvious we start from the top and work are way down eliminating the problem by testing and process of elimination. jumping in with out testing is a sure call back generator.:laughing: what furnace has a control that sits on the floor of a blower cabinet?

 

[Laughingchi]

Where i come from you make sure of a problem although it may be obvious we start from the top and work are way down eliminating the problem by testing and process of elimination. jumping in with out testing is a sure call back generator.:laughing: what furnace has a control that sits on the floor of a blower cabinet?

Actually the control board is quite near the bottom of this furnace. It looks like the board might have been partially immersed from the looks of the cover on the board. I went over this afternoon to try and retrieve the codes blinking from the board. All in vain, everything seems dead. Since it tried to start yesterday, at least I know that the blower motor is functional. Only logical conclusion that I can see is a bad control board. Next step is to remove the control board sometime this week to see if I can salvage it, maybe some obvious corrosion or a short on the circuit board itself, I also read there is supposed to be a fuse on the control board? If it still doesn't work guess I'll need to bite-the-bullet and buy a new control board. Looks like the HK42FZ011 is available for about $200. I'd rather take a shotgun to the Payne Than put the money into it, but even though it would be most satisfying, it wouldn't solve the problem. Guess I just can't sell the house without a working furnace in it. Course the good thing is that it is still quite cold at night up here in Michigan and not having a working furnace will encourage my son to speed up moving out of the house so I can try and sell it! :thumbup: Good and bad in everything I guess. Hey Guys, I really appreciate all the advise given and I will let you'all know how it turns out. :wink: