[akajoe87]

The house I am building has a hot water tank 30" from the panel and water lines are located directly above the panel box in the ceiling. Has anyone had any issues with water lines or hotwater tank too close to panel box?

 

[Jim Port]

You should not have foreign systems over the panel.

 

[Tom738]

Technically they may be allowed if the panel is protected, depending on height, but they are a bad idea.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The house I am building has a hot water tank 30" from the panel and water lines are located directly above the panel box in the ceiling. Has anyone had any issues with water lines or hotwater tank too close to panel box?

I'm not sure what the obsession with having water lines and water appliances near a panel is.

If the water lines are IN the ceiling above the panel, and the heater is that far away it's completely legal, and safe IMO. Water and electric lines ar ein close proximity ALL over the house. An electric water heater has two electric immersion heating element IN the water tank.

As long as there is 30" clear in front of the panel, in either direction, a water heater could theoretically be right next to the panel.

 

[brric]

My understanding is a 36" clearance in front of the panel.

 

[akajoe87]

I will just re route the water pipe just to be safe either way. I will keep the water tank in place. Thanks guys

 

[Pharon]

I'm not sure what the obsession with having water lines and water appliances near a panel is.

If the water lines are IN the ceiling above the panel, and the heater is that far away it's completely legal, and safe IMO. Water and electric lines ar ein close proximity ALL over the house. An electric water heater has two electric immersion heating element IN the water tank.

As long as there is 30" clear in front of the panel, in either direction, a water heater could theoretically be right next to the panel.

It depends where the pipe is. If it's in the space DIRECTLY ABOVE the panel, then it's a violation of 110.26(E)(1), unless there's protection:

110.26(E) Dedicated Equipment Space. All switchboards, switchgear,
panelboards, and motor control centers shall be located in
dedicated spaces and protected from damage.
Exception: Control equipment that by its very nature or because
of other rules of the Code must be adjacent to or within sight of
its operating machinery shall be permitted in those locations.
(1) Indoor. Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(E)(1)(a)
through (E)(1)(d).
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width
and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a
height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural
ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical
installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other
equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located
in this zone.
Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall be
permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.
(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space
required by 110.26(E)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign
systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the
electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such
foreign systems.
(c) Sprinkler Protection. Sprinkler protection shall be permitted
for the dedicated space where the piping complies with
this section.
(d) Suspended Ceilings. A dropped, suspended, or similar
ceiling that does not add strength to the building structure shall
not be considered a structural ceiling.

That said, as long as it's an existing condition, and not something that was just installed and awaiting permit approval, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Speedy Petey]

It depends where the pipe is. If it's in the space DIRECTLY ABOVE the panel, then it's a violation of 110.26(E)(1), unless there's protection:



That said, as long as it's an existing condition, and not something that was just installed and awaiting permit approval, I wouldn't worry about it.

Well, the industrial example you should would not apply here.
If the piping is IN the ceiling, or between the floor joists, it would be fine as far as clearances go. If they were hanging down below the joists that would not be complaint. Either way, if the piping is not in the way of the panel or interfering with the wiring going into the panel I would not worry about it.

 

[Pharon]

Well, the industrial example you should would not apply here.
If the piping is IN the ceiling, or between the floor joists, it would be fine as far as clearances go. If they were hanging down below the joists that would not be complaint. Either way, if the piping is not in the way of the panel or interfering with the wiring going into the panel I would not worry about it.

I disagree. I don't see anything in the Code that exempts residential dwellings from the requirements of 110.26(E). There is an exception in 110.26(A), but that only applies to minimum height of the working space -- but has nothing to do with foreign objects:

Exception No. 1: In existing dwelling units, service equipment
or panelboards that do not exceed 200 amperes shall be
permitted in spaces where the height of the working space is
less than 2.0 m (6 1⁄2 ft).

Just because you don't "worry about it" doesn't mean it's not a Code violation. If there's another exception elsewhere that I missed, please cite it.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I disagree. I don't see anything in the Code that exempts residential dwellings from the requirements of 110.26(E). There is an exception in 110.26(A), but that only applies to minimum height of the working space -- but has nothing to do with foreign objects:



Just because you don't "worry about it" doesn't mean it's not a Code violation. If there's another exception elsewhere that I missed, please cite it.

Where in the heck did I say residential dwellings were excepted??
I said your example does not apply since it is a completely different situation.

If the piping is IN the ceiling or in an open joist bay it is NOT in the working clearance of the panel.

 

[Pharon]

The fact that you think piping being in the ceiling or in an open joist bay IS an exception, and if that's what you're asserting, then please provide a Code citation or withdraw your assertion.

The ONLY thing excepted within the vertical clearance per Code is a suspended ceiling. Nothing else.

 

[gregzoll]

The fact that you think piping being in the ceiling or in an open joist bay IS an exception, and if that's what you're asserting, then please provide a Code citation or withdraw your assertion.

The ONLY thing excepted within the vertical clearance per Code is a suspended ceiling. Nothing else.

If it is a Basement, it will be fine. Sounds like the OP is tight on space, is why the water heater is close to the panel. As long as you have the 30" clearance, and the pipes are not going to be spraying water all over the place, it is not a code violation.

Commercial installs are a whole different issue then residential. In most places, residential is barely even gigged for a lot of stuff.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The fact that you think piping being in the ceiling or in an open joist bay IS an exception, and if that's what you're asserting, then please provide a Code citation or withdraw your assertion.

The ONLY thing excepted within the vertical clearance per Code is a suspended ceiling. Nothing else.

WTF, you are heard headed. WHERE did I say it was an exception???

If it is IN the ceiling, or IN the joist bay, it is NOT within the working clearance.

 

[Pharon]

The NEC disagrees. Look at Exhibit 110.26 I added in post #7 - it clearly shows that space above the panel all the way to the deck needs to be dedicated electrical space. The only thing that's allowed within that area is a suspended ceiling. I don't know how much clearer they can show it.

 

[Pharon]

If it is IN the ceiling, or IN the joist bay, it is NOT within the working clearance.

I'm not talking about the working clearance, but rather the dedicated electrical space above the panel itself. The fact is, what you are stating here is nowhere in the NEC.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I'm not talking about the working clearance, but rather the dedicated electrical space above the panel itself. The fact is, what you are stating here is nowhere in the NEC.

That's nice.
Regardless, a simple piece of drywall above the panel solves the situation you are creating. THAT was my point about it being in the joist bay. I have NEVER seen nor heard of an inspector have a problem with what I describe.
Even without he drywall, the lower edge of the joist could very well be, and typically is, considered the "structural ceiling".