[boondocks95]

I’ve purchased a 1971 home and want to paint the trim white. I know many disagree, but we have chosen to do it. Because of the age of the home I’m concerned the stain has lead so I’d rather avoid sanding if at all possible. I was thinking a bonding primer would work, but I’m not a painter. I also have the doors to do. I can spray or use a brush whatever works best. I know it will take an eternity, but I’ve got the time. Recommendations besides “don’t do it?”

 

[mark sr]

I'm not aware of any varnish or poly being lead based. Prior to that they used shellac so I doubt there would be any lead concerns. I normally lightly sand the finish, wipe down with a liquid deglosser and then apply a solvent based primer followed by 2 coats of enamel [latex or waterborne] Sanding between coats promotes good adhesion along with removing/reducing any defects in the finish.

 

[boondocks95]

So would shellac have lead ? I’ve swabbed an old Jenny Lind style bed I planned to refinish and it was BRIGHT red positive. I assume it was probably much older than this house tho.

 

[mark sr]

I've never tested any shellac although I've sanded and recoated a bunch of it with paint or varnish. I've never heard of shellac having lead but I don't know for sure.


When in doubt it's acceptable to just wipe down the existing finish with liquid deglosser and then apply the primer.

 

[woodco]

Lead (for the most part) stopped being a danger in 79. Its 2020. Unless you have reason to believe that trim has gone 40 years without a paint job, you dont need to worry. When you 'sand' for paint, you are basically only scratching the surface of the last coat or two.

Also, just do a lead test, and be done with it. sand a very small area down to wood, and test the dust. No in worrying if you dont even know. Just dont grind down on it while sanding.

 

[woodco]

So would shellac have lead ? I’ve swabbed an old Jenny Lind style bed I planned to refinish and it was BRIGHT red positive. I assume it was probably much older than this house tho.

Furniture doesnt get repainted like houses do. IF it has lead, and has 20 coats of non lead paint on top of it, you're perfectly safe, as long as you ONLY scuff the surface.

You dont even have to 'sand' per se, you can take green or maroon scotch bright pads and scuff it that way. Also, if you keep them wet while doing it, you prevent any potential lead from going airborne.

 

[boondocks95]

I think you may have misunderstood. It’s brown trim - never painted. It’s just stained/varnished and I imagine original since they didn’t bother to update much of anything else in the home.

Maybe the de-glazer is a better option. I don’t really know if the lead was in the glaze on top or the actual stain. I don’t want to expose fresh lead either and don’t want to pay for pricey paint to seal lead in it. I am certain it was used in the early part of the century, just not sure about the 70s in stains. I’ve heard stories of lead dust flying when sanding old floors, etc.

If I just use a 3m pad or bonding primer is it going to peel badly? Maybe better to just buy all new trim. Or maybe just doors.

 

[boondocks95]

I think you may have misunderstood. It’s brown trim - never painted. It’s just stained/varnished and I imagine original since they didn’t bother to update much of anything else in the home.

Maybe the de-glazer is a better option. I don’t really know if the lead was in the glaze on top or the actual stain. I don’t want to expose fresh lead either and don’t want to pay for pricey paint to seal lead in it. I am certain it was used in the early part of the century, just not sure about the 70s in stains. I’ve heard stories of lead dust flying when sanding old floors, etc.

If I just use a 3m pad or bonding primer is it going to peel badly? Maybe better to just buy all new trim. Or maybe just doors.

 

[mark sr]

With the age of the house the most likely finish on the wood would be varnish.
If you scuff sand the wood with 220 grit you'll have minimal dust. Liquid deglossers work by softening the underlying coating making it more receptive to the primer.

 

[boondocks95]

I am getting more and more concerned about sanding since I have little kids. Is there any primer that would stick without it ?

 

[mathmonger]

If it's just stained and it doesn't have a slick, shiny coat of shellac on there, I don't see an adhesion issue. Sanding seems like a big waste of time anyway. Get some Coverstain primer and do a small adhesion test if you are nervous about it. I think you'll be fine. No sense replacing the trim.

 

[NotYerUncleBob2]

Although the lead ban went into effect in the late 1970's, lead was already being phased out before then...but there were also some die hards who clung to their stockpiles of lead paint into the '80s and kept using it in their homes. That's why it's always a good idea to do a simple lead paint test if there is any question.
Yes, varnish can have lead in it. But it usually doesn't. So you should test.
Sanding the top coats is no guarantee that you're not raising lead dust from the older coats. So you should test.
Do the test so you don't have to guess.

 

[ktownskier]

LEAD, will ONLY be in PAINT. The only other place that lead was prevalent was in motor fuels and that went away in the early 1970's.

It will NOT be in Varnish, Stain, Shellac or any other clean finish.

That is why it is referred to as LEAD PAINT. It comes from the LEAD OXIDE used in the colorants to make the paint white.

The only way it would pose an issue to your kids, is if they were to gnaw on the PAINTED structures and chew down to bare wood.

Or, if they were to create PAINT CHIPS and then EAT them.

As long as the paint is solid, and there is no cracking, peeling or chipping, there is no danger to you or your children.

If you choose to sand any painted surface, just wipe it down with damp rags and then dispose of them. DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN SUCK ON THE RAGS.

Also, vacuum up any dust and then dispose of the bag if your vacuum uses one.

If your are at all concerned, buy a LEAD TEST KIT and test your painted surfaces.

As for painting your stained and varnished trim white, go ahead and scuff sand them, put a good primer on them and then paint them with a good quality paint.



But, to allay any of your fears, unless your painted surfaces are in such a poor state that they are peeling, cracking or chipping, or if your children suffer from a medical condition called "PICA" I wouldn't worry about LEAD PAINT.

 

[woodco]

LEAD, will ONLY be in PAINT. The only other place that lead was prevalent was in motor fuels and that went away in the early 1970's.

It will NOT be in Varnish, Stain, Shellac or any other clean finish.

That is why it is referred to as LEAD PAINT. It comes from the LEAD OXIDE used in the colorants to make the paint white.

The only way it would pose an issue to your kids, is if they were to gnaw on the PAINTED structures and chew down to bare wood.

Or, if they were to create PAINT CHIPS and then EAT them.

As long as the paint is solid, and there is no cracking, peeling or chipping, there is no danger to you or your children.

If you choose to sand any painted surface, just wipe it down with damp rags and then dispose of them. DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN SUCK ON THE RAGS.

Also, vacuum up any dust and then dispose of the bag if your vacuum uses one.

If your are at all concerned, buy a LEAD TEST KIT and test your painted surfaces.

As for painting your stained and varnished trim white, go ahead and scuff sand them, put a good primer on them and then paint them with a good quality paint.



But, to allay any of your fears, unless your painted surfaces are in such a poor state that they are peeling, cracking or chipping, or if your children suffer from a medical condition called "PICA" I wouldn't worry about LEAD PAINT.

Hes only worried about sanding it, which is where it becomes most dangerous.

 

[ktownskier]

Hes only worried about sanding it, which is where it becomes most dangerous.

As I mentioned, but probably not clearly enough, it is only dangerous if you are actually sanding lead paint. Which you shouldn't do.

You should do a test of the paint before you sand it. A test kit is less than $10, and probably much less than than.

And if you find that you must sand paint that does contain lead, wipe it down with wet paper towels to remove the dust. This presumes that you are only surface scuffing the area just to provide some bite for the next layer of paint.

If your are trying to remove the paint from the surface totally, then sanding is not the way to do it. Paint stripper is the way to go about it.

However, the OP was talking about sanding and painting his WOOD TRIM which was previously STAINED and CLEAR SEALED.

LEAD was never used in a CLEAR SEALER.

THERE WILL BE NO DANGER FROM SANDING IT!!



Most, if not all, of the lead exposure incidents came from paint that was cracking, pealing or chipping off due to improper upkeep. The children were found to have been eating the chips or it had been found to have migrated into their food somehow.

It also came from exposure to tetraethyl lead found in the ground around their schools playgrounds as well as in their own yards.

And of course, it came from their drinking water supplies.

 

[Gymschu]

You are right to be concerned, but, not overly so. You CAN skip the part of scuff sanding. I do it all the time. It does give the primer a bit more to "bite" onto, but if you use a quality oil-based or shellac-based bonding primer, that is usually sufficient to give your topcoats something to stick to. More than anything you want to be sure there are no contaminants on the wood such as residue from Murphy's oil soap so a decent cleaning may be more important than any scuff sanding.

Now, the flip side of this process is that the oil-based primer is going to produce some very strong fumes which may be more of a problem to your family than lead dust. You could use a water-based primer like Zinsser 123, but, in my experience it doesn't bond as well to old, varnished woodwork like Zinsser CoverStain or Zinsser BIN shellac.

 

[NotYerUncleBob2]

LEAD, will ONLY be in PAINT. The only other place that lead was prevalent was in motor fuels and that went away in the early 1970's.

It will NOT be in Varnish, Stain, Shellac or any other clean finish.

That is why it is referred to as LEAD PAINT. It comes from the LEAD OXIDE used in the colorants to make the paint white.

NOT TRUE. Lead was added to all sorts of finishes including varnish. Not typically to the same level as lead paint, and not to all clear finishes, but it was done enough that you just can't categorically rule it out.

The only way it would pose an issue to your kids, is if they were to gnaw on the PAINTED structures and chew down to bare wood.
Or, if they were to create PAINT CHIPS and then EAT them.

NOT TRUE. Although ingesting lead paint chips is one of the fastest ways to get to a dangerous level of lead poisoning, the most common way that kids get lead in their system is from dust and from rubbing up against lead contaminated surfaces like trim painted with lead paint.

As long as the paint is solid, and there is no cracking, peeling or chipping, there is no danger to you or your children.

NOT TRUE. The lead rubs off. It becomes dust. The dust gets on their hands and in their food.

If you choose to sand any painted surface, just wipe it down with damp rags and then dispose of them. DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN SUCK ON THE RAGS.

BAD ADVICE. Sanding lead painted surfaces without the proper RRP lead protocol will get lead dust all over the place.

Also, vacuum up any dust and then dispose of the bag if your vacuum uses one.

INADEQUATE. Vacuuming lead dust will spew a lot of it out the back of the vacuum unless it's a HEPA filtered vacuum. Most are not.

If your are at all concerned, buy a LEAD TEST KIT and test your painted surfaces.

FINALLY SOME GOOD ADVICE!!

As for painting your stained and varnished trim white, go ahead and scuff sand them, put a good primer on them and then paint them with a good quality paint.

NOPE. Although the real exposure might be minimal, it's not worth the risk to sand a lead painted surface. Painting over the trim to encapsulate the lead (if it's there) will be beneficial.

But, to allay any of your fears, unless your painted surfaces are in such a poor state that they are peeling, cracking or chipping, or if your children suffer from a medical condition called "PICA" I wouldn't worry about LEAD PAINT.

OVERSIMPLIFYING. Lead is a real hazard. It's a cumulative condition too, so that just a teensy bit today, and a teensy bit tomorrow and the next day can all add up to real lead exposure. But that doesn't mean we all need to flee from any building that was built after 1978. We just need to take precautions. First of all, assess if there is any lead present in the finishes.
A house built 1960-1980 has a 25% chance of having lead paint.
A house built 1940-1960 has a 70% chance of having lead paint.
A house built before 1940 has a 90% chance of having lead paint.
Do the test. It's pretty easy and cheap.
If there is lead paint present, there are ways to mitigate and/or minimize the exposure. The EPA has guidelines for it. Look up RRP and lead and you'll find the resources.