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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I want some suggestions on priming vs paints that say priming and paint all in one.
My house is about 90 years old. I'm scraping with carbide blades. I'd say 20% to 30 % of the wood is bare after scraping. Lap siding is cedar.
Should I prime the bare wood or use a paint that includes priming. (Do the paints claiming priming and paint all in one, work?) What brand of priming paint to use.
I'm also setting nails on siding where needed and using window glazing for filler(Since I'm doing it myself, I can wait a week or more for it to dry. I already had a can of glazing. Feathering the uneven areas of existing paint by sanding with an orbitor sander.
Also-
I want to do this project right and spend around 35 to 38 dollars a gallon.
What is a good paint to use?
I've read some threads here (including the one one on Behr paint),I know alot of you giving advice are professional painters.
Sounds like the high end paint from the box stores like Lowe's and Home Depot are not as good as buying paint from paint store like Sherwin Williams, BM.....etc.
I would appreciate any and all suggestions.

Side note- I had a local painter recommend a solid stain as he uses Pratt & Lambert stains alot.
I read up on this and have decided paint is my only option as paint lasts longer and it has a thicker mil than solid stain. It will cover any flaws better.
Stains seem to be for bare wood only or previously stained wood, NOT previously painted siding.
 

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Learning by Doing
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No paint, no matter what they say, should be applied under your conditions without a primer. It will: look better and last longer.
 

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Too Short? Cut it Again!
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I never did all that much exterior work on oldies but goodies but the last one I restored had gorgeous old cypress and cedar siding I took down to the wood.

I primed it with Benjamin Moore Alkyd Fresh Start primer tinted 40-50 percent of the final paint formula. Alkyd primers are solvent based products so you have to clean up with mineral spirits. People sometimes refer to it as an oil-based primer. It is not. It is alkyd. I think alkyd is the great equalizer because it will cover near anything nicely prepped and you can paint over it with either oil or waterbased products.

I then called for two coats of waterbased, 100 percent acrylic house paint with as much UV protection in it as possible, in whatever sheen wanted, to go over the alkyd primer. The high end Benjamin Moore products were of course great choices. Nice brushes and other tools of course.

Owner of the house fell on hard times and sold it to some Ukrainian slum lord apartment conversion company. They ripped the primed siding off and put up crappy vinyl so it never got finish coated but I would have used two coats of nice 100 percent acrylic, water based house paint.

A lot of people in the preservation group I was part of swore by MAB solid color acrylic stain for use on their wood sided antique projects and it looked nice---not the same as a painted finish though. I personally would not use it over previously painted surfaces unless I was sure I had stripped all the old paint off.

And do stay away from the box stores for the paint. I just saw a banner flash across the bottom of the screen here a day or so suggesting Sherwin Williams was soon offering 30 percent off everything for a week or something. Ben Moore will have similar deals all season and the store owner/manager has such deals at his/her disposal. You may have to ask for the discounts though.

There is no such thing as primer and paint in one. The chemistries and even basic purposes are different just to start.

If you are not sure your color choices try the virtual painting programs availed free by SW, Ben Moore and others. They will simulate what your house will look like painted. Take the codes to the store and have a quart mixed if you still want to paint out a little bit before committing to gallons and gallons.
 

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Painting Company, NY
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Rimer and paint can't be in the same container, as they each serve there own purpose. Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the prep. I would also wash the house after prep, before primining and then caulk where trim meets siding as needed with a quality acrylic-silicone paintable caulk. I would prime with Sherwin Williams A100 oil primer and paint with SherwiN Williams Superpaint satin sheen.
 

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Environmental Health
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Smokin Gun,

Hate to turn you into a human experiment, but just wondering ...

Any headaches, cold or flu like symptoms, irritability, constipation, weakness, fatigue or other non-typical symptoms while you were scraping or sanding? Did you wear a mask? Any small children in the home?

Was your home built in the early 1920s?

I specialize in lead based paint and it would help a lot to know. You can answer via private message, if you want.
 

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Sherwin williams Duration is "self priming" and I have seen it last a while if the surface is prepped right...but BM fresh start is an awesome primer.. if you want a worry free method hit the spots with the fresh start and top coat with 2 coats latex...i recommend duration..
 

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Painting Company, NY
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Sherwin williams Duration is "self priming" and I have seen it last a while if the surface is prepped right...but BM fresh start is an awesome primer.. if you want a worry free method hit the spots with the fresh start and top coat with 2 coats latex...i recommend duration..
Sherwin Williams Duration is a great paint, but you really still should still prime any bare wood and on an older substrate an oil primer would be best. Sherwin Williams Superpaint is cheaper than Duration and last just as long.
 

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Too Short? Cut it Again!
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I wish we could stop using "oil" and "alkyd" primer references interchangeably. They are different and I while I suspect people mean alkyd when suggesting an oil based primer for home interiors, I am not certain.
 

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Exterior house painting is not a place where you'll want to be "saving $5 a gallon by shopping at the big box stores" because when their cheap-but-expensive paint fails on you in <2 years, you'll wish you'd saved up a bit more - and used a real paint.

Shoot, for $38 I can get you Behr - or Benjamin Moore. With the Behr you get an $8/gallon paint, and 300% markup to keep the store open; With BM you get three times the quality paint plus a 50% markup to keep the best paints coming.

Succcumb to the paint+primer all-in-one hype in your guest bedroom, where all it costs you is your time to learn the hard way what we just told you. With one you'll redo it in 2 years, with the other, in 10 years. Your choice.

Watch; the Quack from Omaha is going to disagree...LOL
 

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NACE Coating Inspector
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Exterior house painting is not a place where you'll want to be "saving $5 a gallon by shopping at the big box stores" because when their cheap-but-expensive paint fails on you in <2 years, you'll wish you'd saved up a bit more - and used a real paint.

Shoot, for $38 I can get you Behr - or Benjamin Moore. With the Behr you get an $8/gallon paint, and 300% markup to keep the store open; With BM you get three times the quality paint plus a 50% markup to keep the best paints coming.

Succcumb to the paint+primer all-in-one hype in your guest bedroom, where all it costs you is your time to learn the hard way what we just told you. With one you'll redo it in 2 years, with the other, in 10 years. Your choice.

Watch; the Quack from Omaha is going to disagree...LOL
yep, you may have to bring that horse back out again
 

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Learning by Doing
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chrisn said:
Just to technical for most, hell, even I interchange them.:laughing:
Oil is an extinct species around here. And my big box store doesn't even sell alkyd.
 

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jschaben
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Just to technical for most, hell, even I interchange them.:laughing:
I, for one, probably use the terms interchangably because I have no clue what the difference is. The OP says he is filling nail sets with window glazing. The window glazing I use, DAP 33, specifically recommends "oil based primer" within 7-14 days after application. Now, I've been using Zinsser Seal Coat, which I have come to believe is an Alkyd but actually have no idea whether it is or not...:huh: or, whether it satisfies the window glazing requirement. .. more info please:confused1:
 

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I personally like oil based exterior paints. Nothing looks better then oil based if done correctly. Anyway its outside so you don't have to worry about the smell just takes a little longer to dry.
 

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paper hanger and painter
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I, for one, probably use the terms interchangably because I have no clue what the difference is. The OP says he is filling nail sets with window glazing. The window glazing I use, DAP 33, specifically recommends "oil based primer" within 7-14 days after application. Now, I've been using Zinsser Seal Coat, which I have come to believe is an Alkyd but actually have no idea whether it is or not...:huh: or, whether it satisfies the window glazing requirement. .. more info please:confused1:
Seal coat is a sealer and not necessarilly what you want( I don't think) I have always used a slow dry oil primer( or maybe alkyd?) such as Fresh Start oil or Duron before and after glazing. Sometimes if I am down to the bare wood on window sashes I will wipe on a coat of linseed oil to sink into the wood.
 

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Chemically, "oil" and "alkdy" are different things - but that baout the only world where it really matters practically; in ou world, it is sufficine to know that an 'alkyd' is a modified 'oil', but they both qualify as the opposite from latexes...

More importantly is that Oil/Alkyds dry in 6 hours or so but cure in 10 days whereas latex paints dry in 3 hours but cure in 30 days! and that temperature, humidity levels, dew points and air movement affect the final results you get...I see a lot of people using latex when it's 90 deg outside and wonder why they don't get the results they hoped for - then blame the paint.

They never blame the piant in Nebraska.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
I'm impressed with all of you responding to my questions. You people are great!! I'm very,very happy to have found this site. This has been extremely helpful.

I did see the sale on SW paints and am going to buy 16 gallons.
Not sure if I'm going with Duration ($57 @ 30% off = $39.90) or their Super Paint line ($44 @ 30% off = $30.80).
My total Square Footage is 3340. Times two coats= 6678. I am assuming that coverage is 400 sq. ft. per gallon. I will find out when I go to purchase paint.
Any thoughts welcome all of you paint masters.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I would like to know what to do about priming with oil base primer.
I know you can put latex over oil but can't put oil over latex.
The existing paint is latex. The bare wood is here and there, some areas are large, but some are spotty, like a brindle dog (If you get my drift.).
If I use oil primer, do I have to be careful about not going over the existing latex paint?
If I can't put oil primer over existing latex paint, will the latex primers work ok?

I Thought maybe go with SW Super Paint and use an oil primer on all large areas of bare wood and as many smaller spots as well.
Question-
Does Duration do better on existing painted surfaces vs. the Super Paint/ Or do they both perform the same?


This brings up a thought. Could I go with a tinted primer for my first coat, then a finish coat with Duration or Super paint? Two coats?
OR do I need to do primer coat and two coats with paint?

Or would I do just as well with the Super Paint and oil primer, with saving $160 in my pocket.
But afew people here said the Super Paint is just as good.

Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Seal coat is a sealer and not necessarilly what you want( I don't think) I have always used a slow dry oil primer( or maybe alkyd?) such as Fresh Start oil or Duron before and after glazing. Sometimes if I am down to the bare wood on window sashes I will wipe on a coat of linseed oil to sink into the wood.
Does this mean I have to use oil primer on glazing? What would happen is I used a latex primer on it?
(I'm not sure what primer on bare wood I am going to use. I know the oil base is better. The existing paint is latex, and I know you can't put oil based over latex.)
 
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