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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I tried posting before but forgot picture. I decided to paint some dated pine cabinets. After much online research I decided to use SW Emerald Enamel. After weeks of prep work which included:
Krud Deglosser with scotchbrite pad /wiping with damp cloth new dawn soap/rinse to remove any residue -removing dirt and grease
Sanding – getting close to grain – slightly more than just “scuffed” up using 120 Grit
Used Shellac Primer – due to stopping knots from showing through and alleged tannins – 2 coats and sanded between both coats using 320 grit
2 coats of SW and sanded between first and 2nd coat with 320 /400 grit
• Ensured I waited 24 hours between coats
• painted in proper relative humidity- Used a mohair roller – with brush for corners
• Did the adhesion test after first coat of paint using scored grid and duck tape – no paint pulled off
• Allowed cupboards to cure for 3 weeks before I hung them up
• As I was hanging them up and attaching the hardware paint chipped away from the cupboard doors around the top edge as soon as they made contact with wall
The cupboards look beautiful – just cannot touch them or use them ☹
So …I have no idea what to do other than burn them – I have no idea where my process went wrong? I can’t even start over because I don’t know what to change – I wonder if it is the paint is just not suitable for this project /wood ?? hate to say how many hours I put into the prep -its embarrassing that I failed this process
I have painted random items in my house with cheap paint – no primer /no scuffing no cleaning and the paint stayed on a lot better than this …I used chalk paint on a kitchen sideboard cabinet we use everyday six years ago and no chipping – just didn’t think chalk would be suitable for kitchen cabinets. I was trying to avoid a big kitchen Reno right now -but my only option is to sand down to bare wood again and go back to a clear coat. This will be a long difficult road -I tried touching up a few doors and clear coating a few with Minwax polycrylic -clear -satin - nope - still chips

The pictures show the chipping - with the ugly primer peeking through -and you see beside where I scraped them with my fingernail off to the side - which just scratched and did not chip - but easily chipped off along the edges. I wished I had of tinted the primer - at least that would have been as offensive
 

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I tried posting before but forgot picture. I decided to paint some dated pine cabinets. After much online research I decided to use SW Emerald Enamel. After weeks of prep work which included:
Krud Deglosser with scotchbrite pad /wiping with damp cloth new dawn soap/rinse to remove any residue -removing dirt and grease
Sanding – getting close to grain – slightly more than just “scuffed” up using 120 Grit
Used Shellac Primer – due to stopping knots from showing through and alleged tannins – 2 coats and sanded between both coats using 320 grit
2 coats of SW and sanded between first and 2nd coat with 320 /400 grit
• Ensured I waited 24 hours between coats
• painted in proper relative humidity- Used a mohair roller – with brush for corners
• Did the adhesion test after first coat of paint using scored grid and duck tape – no paint pulled off
• Allowed cupboards to cure for 3 weeks before I hung them up
• As I was hanging them up and attaching the hardware paint chipped away from the cupboard doors around the top edge as soon as they made contact with wall
The cupboards look beautiful – just cannot touch them or use them ☹
So …I have no idea what to do other than burn them – I have no idea where my process went wrong? I can’t even start over because I don’t know what to change – I wonder if it is the paint is just not suitable for this project /wood ?? hate to say how many hours I put into the prep -its embarrassing that I failed this process
I have painted random items in my house with cheap paint – no primer /no scuffing no cleaning and the paint stayed on a lot better than this …I used chalk paint on a kitchen sideboard cabinet we use everyday six years ago and no chipping – just didn’t think chalk would be suitable for kitchen cabinets. I was trying to avoid a big kitchen Reno right now -but my only option is to sand down to bare wood again and go back to a clear coat. This will be a long difficult road -I tried touching up a few doors and clear coating a few with Minwax polycrylic -clear -satin - nope - still chips

The pictures show the chipping - with the ugly primer peeking through -and you see beside where I scraped them with my fingernail off to the side - which just scratched and did not chip - but easily chipped off along the edges. I wished I had of tinted the primer - at least that would have been as offensive
I dont know this for sure but I think it may be a BIN issue. Using an oil based primer has solved this issue for me in the past. Have also heard this from another PT member and eric reason on his youtube page mentioned this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the feedback - who knew- given so much info on need to shellac over pine Wondering if anything can cover the shellac and I could repaint - finding it hard to get back to the bare wood again and get all the layers of paint and shellac off?
 

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I've used pigmented shellac a lot as a primer when painting over varnish/poly and never had any adhesion issues. How long did the finish paint have to cure before the damage occurred?


I'd sand with 220 grit and repaint where needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Finish coat cured for 3 weeks because it was going in a kitchen I wanted to ensure had time to cure - and damage occurred when I was hanging them back up -tinted primer would have been a great way to go
 

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my only experience with emerald urethane has been a black 4x base, that stuff stayed soft and never fully cured. Don't know about the pastel bases, supposed to be a good product. interesting it only chipped down to the primer.
 

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Thats a strange one... Ive switched to coverstain on cabinets, but Ive never had an issue with BIN... Im not big on tinted primer myself. I'd rather make sure the topcoat is bulletproof.

At this point, I would just face them off with another coat, and hope for the best.

Worse case scenario, take and orbital, buzz the topcoat off with 120 grit, and use coverstain. you would just need to sand the face. Not the details, so its not as bad as starting over. sucks though.

Just tough up for a while and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey - thanks so much for your recommendation- would I have to sand all the paint off down to the primer on the fronts ? its about 30 minutes per door removing ever bit of paint from the fronts only - I purchased the cover stain- unfortunately they did not have the orderless - I was also wondering should I just get an alternate paint using the SW color? Hate to go through all this and the paint fails again.
 

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You didnt use synthetic shellac did you? I haven heard good things about that stuff.

Anyway, what I would do is just sand the flat part of the frame down to the primer. It wont take that long. Five minutes each.... I wouldnt even bother sanding the inside panels either They are less likely to scratch. Reprime the sanded part, and reroll the frame. Put a third or even a fourth topcoat if your roller is really fine, for added durability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So...

As per above - I got out the orbital and sanded all 22 of the fronts. As you can see harder to remove the paint further away from the edge. Applied one coat of cover stain let it dry 24+ hours lighted sanded out and Reapplied the SW paint in Semigloss ( not satin). I had called SW and they told me to bring in the door - see why paint not sticking they suggested i use the semigloss instead -
Well - the paint still easily chipping off again - I lightly sanded between each coat with 400 grit - cant figure it out. Some weird interplay between the primer and paint.

I applied the SW paint directly to a sanded door as I had a spare one I was no longer using - the paint adheres much better when applied directly to the wood ???
I used the same paint to paint a pre primed door and it is adhering well -no issue. I wanted to use a primer so the knots wouldn't bleed through-maybe that was wrong approach.
This two week project is now two months - paint man told me to strip each door down to the bare wood again with paint stripper- start over - Not liking this sense of failure.
 

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retired painter
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The sheen of the finish paint shouldn't make much difference.
No need to use 400 grit! I've never seen the need to use anything finer than 220 grit when sanding wood. I would have initially sanded with 120, use 180 after the primer dried and 220 between coats of finish. I wonder it the 400 grit made it too slick for the paint to adhere well ??
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hm - could be -initially i had to use 120 to get the paint off then used the 400 in between coats - the pine scratched easily with - but you are right the surface may have been to smooth - good gawd
 

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I just finished almost the same project... Primed with SW Extreme Bond and painted with Emerald Urethane Trim in Satin. I have not yet detected any adhesion issues, but I finished second coat only 4 days ago and have not built the cabinets. My issue is that I don't like the finish at all. It's not vibrant, did not fill in as much as I would have liked, and just overall does not have the appearance I had hoped for. Knowing my process was good, I can only assume the paint is just not good. This is my first experience with Emerald Urethane Enamel Trim. I am also definitely getting some tannin bleed. I feel like I should have gone B.I.N to begin with and not let the SW guy talk me into the EB. I think I'm getting ready to 220, B.I.N, and switch things over to Ben Moore. At least the backs are ok. I'll spray the Ben and expect far better results. I have always used Sherwin paints and have great luck with duration and Emerald for walls... not a fan of the Emerald Urethane Enamel Trim.
 

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I just finished almost the same project... Primed with SW Extreme Bond and painted with Emerald Urethane Trim in Satin. I have not yet detected any adhesion issues, but I finished second coat only 4 days ago and have not built the cabinets. My issue is that I don't like the finish at all. It's not vibrant, did not fill in as much as I would have liked, and just overall does not have the appearance I had hoped for. Knowing my process was good, I can only assume the paint is just not good. This is my first experience with Emerald Urethane Enamel Trim. I am also definitely getting some tannin bleed. I feel like I should have gone B.I.N to begin with and not let the SW guy talk me into the EB. I think I'm getting ready to 220, B.I.N, and switch things over to Ben Moore. At least the backs are ok. I'll spray the Ben and expect far better results. I have always used Sherwin paints and have great luck with duration and Emerald for walls... not a fan of the Emerald Urethane Enamel Trim.



both cabinetcoat and advance are superior to emerald urethane. sw extreme bond has basically no stain blocking ability not sure why you would use it over previously finishes or bleeding type woods... BIN or oil based primer. I prefer oil because they stay somewhat flexible compared to BIN.
 
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