[rogman16]

Good afternoon Pros, first post!!!

I am an extreme NOVICE when it comes to electrical work... Would say I am an above average handyman, but just have not fooled around with electrical at all...

Installing an outdoor kitchen for the wife and pretty much Zero access to electricity on the back of our house... I am at least looking to pull and feed wire, install conduit and outlets, everything shy of connecting everything up... I am asking for help on what size wire, how many home runs, what can be daisy-chained, etc...

As you will see in the pictures, here's what I know we are installing that will be plugged in all the time:

2 Range Hoods--manual calls for a 20 amp circuit, each range hood pulls 6 amps; can both be placed on the same breaker home run?

1 Full size refrigerator--guessing it's own 15 amp circuit

Propane gas grill--plug for the lights on the grill

Distances: Outdoor Kitchen about 60-75' run from the indoor breaker box; all other runs would be longer than the outdoor kitchen with the furthest being approx 125'...

I think the pictures have the rest of the story... If not, please just ask me to take a better picture or communicate a little better...

Again, what I am asking:

1) How many total circuits would you add for this?

2) How many runs of wire from circuit box through the attic to the locations out back (same as number of circuits??)?

3) What sized wire if there are different sizes for the circuits?

4) What can be daisy chained and what can't?

5) Sure there are some important questions I am leaving out that you will school me on, so thanks in advance!

Thanks again for any advice you are willing to give...

Roger V
Navarre, FL

 

[anyacolo]

my suggestions.....


blue - one 20 amp circuit from panel for both hoods that would require 12/2 wire


red - 2 x 15 amp circuits, put 8 outlets on each circuit requires 14/2 wire


yellow - 1 x 15 amp circuit requires 14/2 wire


green - 1 x 20 amp circuit requires 12/2 wire


so 5 circuits in total going back to the panel, all would need to be GFCI protected to be outdoors, use PVC pipe/conduit

 

[rogman16]

my suggestions.....


blue - one 20 amp circuit from panel for both hoods that would require 12/2 wire


red - 2 x 15 amp circuits, put 8 outlets on each circuit requires 14/2 wire


yellow - 1 x 15 amp circuit requires 14/2 wire


green - 1 x 20 amp circuit requires 12/2 wire


so 5 circuits in total going back to the panel, all would need to be GFCI protected to be outdoors, use PVC pipe/conduit

Awesome, thanks much!!! When you say PVC/conduit you are talking about outside, correct??? Currently, all my electrical in the attic is just wires with no pvc conduit...

vr
Roger V

 

[rjniles]

If you run cable in conduit outside you can not use NM Romex.

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[rogman16]

If you run cable in conduit outside you can not use NM Romex.

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Thanks, that probably saved me a lot of redo work and money... So I am guessing I need to run THHN single strands through the conduit outside... Does this need to be in conduit in the attic???

Thanks much

Roger V

 

[rjniles]

If you use THHN/THWN it must be run in conduit from panel to outlet. Or run NM in the attic to a junction box where you go outside, switch to conduit with THWN.

I would run UF the whole way. Sleeve with conduit outside.

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[rogman16]

If you use THHN/THWN it must be run in conduit from panel to outlet. Or run NM in the attic to a junction box where you go outside, switch to conduit with THWN.

I would run UF the whole way. Sleeve with conduit outside.

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Thanks for the quick reply... So I shudder to ask, but can UF be run exposed in attic and then conduit outside?

Thanks again (and in advance)

Roger V

 

[rjniles]

Yes UF can be run exposed in attic and in conduit outside. Normally cables are not run in conduit asthe pull can be very hard but for short runs from the eave down to a receptacle box it is not an issue. Use 3/4" conduit.

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[rogman16]

Yes UF can be run exposed in attic and in conduit outside. Normally cables are not run in conduit asthe pull can be very hard but for short runs from the eave down to a receptacle box it is not an issue. Use 3/4" conduit.

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:biggrin2:

Copy, think I got it, thanks...

"IF" I am able to drill a hole in the bricks/siding and fish the wire through the wall to an outlet, I can use Romex, Correct??? I think I can fish the wire through the exterior wall on a majority of these drops...

I can move some of the proposed drop locations up a little to make the fishing easier... Only drops I think would be problematic for fishing would be the ones circled in orange... Can run UF/conduit to those locations, if my above premise is correct???

Thanks for the help, vr

Roger V

P.S. As a diehard FSU fan it really pains me to type "UF" and admit I need "UF"... Might have to do THHN even though it would be more difficult, JK!!! :vs_laugh:

 

[rjniles]

Technically even bringing NM out into the back of an exterior box is a violation. But it is done all the time and I have never seen an inspector call it.

I think you will find fishing those exterior walls is next to impossible. You have a hip roof, no way to get out to the eaves in the attic.

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[anyacolo]

"IF" I am able to drill a hole in the bricks/siding and fish the wire through the wall to an outlet, I can use Romex, Correct??? I think I can fish the wire through the exterior wall on a majority of these drops...

it wouldn't be worth the hassle to fish it for only a few feet,


i would just drill a hole in the soffit and run PVC straight down to the first outlet

 

[rogman16]

Technically even bringing NM out into the back of an exterior box is a violation. But it is done all the time and I have never seen an inspector call it.

I think you will find fishing those exterior walls is next to impossible.

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Copy, thanks!!! I will try with one of the range hood outlets as that is only going to be 6-8" below the topcap line...

Question, so what you are saying is that the two "measely" outdoor outlets that were put in when the house was built "should" be either UF or THHN (in conduit)??? Is there a quick way for me to tell???

Thanks

vr
Roger V

 

[rogman16]

it wouldn't be worth the hassle to fish it for only a few feet,


i would just drill a hole in the soffit and run PVC straight down to the first outlet

I can literally reach my forearm down at least 18" behind the bricks... Am I missing something about fishing the wires through when I can probably hand myself the wire??

Just asking as I don't know...

Thanks

vr
Roger V

 

[jbfan]

I would run a small sub panel to the kitchen area and try to feed most things from there.

BTW.

Go Jackets!!!

 

[rogman16]

Sorry Pros, more questions after looking at circuit breakers... Do I need GCFI breakers "AND" GCFI outlets?? Reason I ask is that neither or my outdoor outlets are GCFI...

Thanks

vr
Roger V

 

[rogman16]

Sorry Pros, more questions after looking at circuit breakers... Do I need GCFI breakers "AND" GCFI outlets?? Reason I ask is that neither or my outdoor outlets are GCFI...

Thanks

vr
Roger V

After more research, looks like I need "Combination" Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupting (CAFCI) Circuit Breaker??? Please confirm... And again, do I need GFCI outlets if I have these circuit breakers???

Thanks Roger V

 

[rjniles]

A CAFCI provides arc fault protection only, the combination refers to series and parallel arc fauilts. You need ground fault protection. If you want AFCI and GFCI you need dual function breakers (often referred to as DFCI) or alternately CAFCI breakers with GFCI receptacles. Since this new work you can not use CAFCI receptacles.

 

[rogman16]

Please look at the list of parts I am suggesting and see if I have any mismatches... I am first going to focus on the kitchen area, that's why some of the numbers have changed... Outside of small stuff like screws, wirenuts, etc, do I have the major pieces covered???

Thanks for you recommendations...

vr
Roger V

 

[Oldmaster]

Not sure what the 20 amp receptacles are for, you only need 15 amp. If they are outside they should be weather resistance. In-use covers are required as well.

 

[Oldmaster]

Also, if your using combo AFCI /GFI breakers you don't need GFI receptacles.