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Discussion Starter #1
Are the pictures attached considered code (NEC) compliant regarding there is no junction box but the exterior lighting has a base to it that can store the conductors.

Or do you need a junction box regardless. * masonary block wall- remodeling box recommend?

I know they allowed a vanity light in bathrooms with a built in junction box for the NM conductors to run right into the fixture with out a junction box. These were the 4-5 light bulb (one could cook a hot dog on the bulbs) vanity bar shiny chrome lights.
 

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Usually Confused
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The pros will no doubt have better information but I think the issue is that all electrical connections have to be in an 'approved' fixture, and would assume the bathroom vanity is approved. The added problem with exterior fixtures is the need to be weatherproof. A big problem I see with your set-up is conductors are against bare metal and unsecured. What qualifies as an approved exterior fixture I'll leave to those that know your Code.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The first picture showing the bracket attached to wall is what was PRIOR- yes I agree the conductors are rubbing on the masonary block hole with no strain relief.
Thus if the conductors were outside the wall anchor bracket * AND inside the base of the unit is the fixture itself the base considered an approved junction?

A rule of NEC thumb was if there is no knock out on the fixture for a strain relief then NO get a junction box. But these new manufactures are using these web like brackets are they considered strain relief - I dont think so since there is no mechanical clamp but then again you have integral plastic clamps in carlon boxs with no mechanical fastening?

I think were on the same page. I think someone never but a junction box in - this one slipped by the inspector.:vs_cool:

* any recommendations on a old work steel masonary junction box like this: http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/specialty-boxes/non-metallic-and-plated-steel-4x4-boxes/FSCB24
 

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Technically its not compliant.
Realistically I have zero issue with it.

If this bothers you, remove the fixture. Take a pancake box or similar. Trace it out over the hole and carefully chip out the block until the box just barely fits. Very tight fit.


Remove the correct KO (best one for the hole) and install a connector. Insert cable and snug it up. You can use a button or two screw connector.

Fill hole bottom with newspaper, fill cavity with mud and tap the box into the mud and make it flush with the block. Allow to dry overnight and reinstall the fixture to the box.

I have seen foam used for this before.

Now you choose. Leave it or make it compliant.
I know what I would do.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Technically its not compliant.
Realistically I have zero issue with it.

If this bothers you, remove the fixture. Take a pancake box or similar. Trace it out over the hole and carefully chip out the block until the box just barely fits. Very tight fit.


Remove the correct KO (best one for the hole) and install a connector. Insert cable and snug it up. You can use a button or two screw connector.

Fill hole bottom with newspaper, fill cavity with mud and tap the box into the mud and make it flush with the block. Allow to dry overnight and reinstall the fixture to the box.




I have seen foam used for this before.

Now you choose. Leave it or make it compliant.
I know what I would do.
As one who does masonary there is no possible way to fill and bond correctty a CMU exterior wall with mortar with out massively creating a hole on the opposite side (inside the garage). Theres boxes by arlington but there new work when it comes to this and you dont need mortar.
I am leaning towards this old work box from gavin TB box https://www.garvinindustries.com/nsearch/?q=tb#?keywords=tb&search_return=all&res_per_page=96
 

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You're into areas above my pay grade. The problem I've always had with pancake boxes is the amount of distance that a box connector intrudes. I suppose that is affected by the depth and profiles of the fixture's base. I also think I recall reading that their approved use has been limited recently but that might be country/code version dependent.
If nothing else, caulk around the fixture base when done - leave a small gap at the bottom.
 

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LeslieInMontreal
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The pros will no doubt have better information but I think the issue is that all electrical connections have to be in an 'approved' fixture, and would assume the bathroom vanity is approved. The added problem with exterior fixtures is the need to be weatherproof. A big problem I see with your set-up is conductors are against bare metal and unsecured. What qualifies as an approved exterior fixture I'll leave to those that know your Code.

In Canada, The outdoor fixture must be attached solidly to a wall or ceiling. The standard three conductor 16 guage wire for lamps is permitted, as long as the outer insulation is intact and it passes through a strain relief into a box. The fixture has to be grounded (bare wire, and if possible, observe white/black polarity (The white is usually the ground wire, and the black the 120volt ac source from the switch.


When a recepticle is installed outside, it must be GFCI protected and connections must be done inside the water proof box for recepticles. Flaps are required over the recepticle to keep out rain/snow.
 

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Usually Confused
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In Canada, The outdoor fixture must be attached solidly to a wall or ceiling. The standard three conductor 16 guage wire for lamps is permitted, as long as the outer insulation is intact and it passes through a strain relief into a box. The fixture has to be grounded (bare wire, and if possible, observe white/black polarity (The white is usually the ground wire, and the black the 120volt ac source from the switch.


When a recepticle is installed outside, it must be GFCI protected and connections must be done inside the water proof box for recepticles. Flaps are required over the recepticle to keep out rain/snow.

Around here, ground is green, white is neutral. AFIK, receptacle covers with flaps are no longer approved, it must be a weather-proof full coverage 'in-use' cover.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
In the END this is how the project was finished- the junction box before the exterior light was connected. Like to strive for higher than NEC standards.
 

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As one who does masonary there is no possible way to fill and bond correctty a CMU exterior wall with mortar with out massively creating a hole on the opposite side (inside the garage). Theres boxes by arlington but there new work when it comes to this and you dont need mortar.
I am leaning towards this old work box from gavin TB box https://www.garvinindustries.com/nsearch/?q=tb#?keywords=tb&search_return=all&res_per_page=96
I know this thread is old, but I saw it today. I had to respond to this reply.

I am no masonry man. But I have been working as an electrician for years.
Most of my early work was in construction and most all of it was commercial high rise structures built with steel and masonry.

I have cut in more boxes into a block wall than I care to remember. I did not need the masonry box you linked to. I used new steel work boxes and either mortar mix or my favorite, concrete patch.
Small bucket you can take to any job. Just needs some water.

I live in a block house and I have had to flush mount several boxes on the outside. I always did it like I describe above.
Its one thing to be working on a new construction job than coming in much later.
Why can't someone trace out the box on the block wall, over the cavity, knock out the hole with a the back of a ball pean hammer and mud in a new box? Its done all the time with existing block structures.
 
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