[Nealtw]

Ok, we used the template, verified short to short and long to long lengths, then cut the long one 179” at its longest point. Wedged it in at the top, and got the following at the bottom:

View attachment 728825
View attachment 728827
View attachment 728826

Of course I need to remove the wire that goes along the top plate, and then cut the opposite side.

No nailing to the ridge, only to the sister, right?

Yes you do toe nail into the ridge, it does look like expected, well, a little worse than I expected.
I would like you to measure the lift and try that same rafter on the opposite rafter to judge the back wall to the front wall.

If this is the worst section then we want to use the board with the highest crown.

 

[Nealtw]

When you are ready to install them tight at the top and tight to a few purlins
Nail the 2x8 to the 2x6 only where the top of the 2x8 is touching the purlins .
As we lift them more and more of the 2x8 will meet the purlins and you can nail some maybe after each time or every other time we lift a little.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes you do toe nail into the ridge, it does look like expected, well, a little worse than I expected.
I would like you to measure the lift and try that same rafter on the opposite rafter to judge the back wall to the front wall.
View attachment 728835

If this is the worst section then we want to use the board with the highest crown.

That was with the template. I have cut two based on the template and we will do the measurement.

I didn’t like a lot of the 2x8 stock, but the boards I got have very little crown to them, for what it’s worth. They’re bent more on the wide edge, but I figured that wont matter much as we nail them on.

I think I can tell readily that the side with the rafter crack has more sag.

 

[JHZR2]

I’m going to install the 2x10 over the ribbon piece on the balloon frame. I have spax 1/4” lags. They claim no pre drilling is needed, but I’m not sure that’s really true for such old studs. Do you think I should do some pre-drilling?

 

[Nealtw]

I’m going to install the 2x10 over the ribbon piece on the balloon frame. I have spax 1/4” lags. They claim no pre drilling is needed, but I’m not sure that’s really true for such old studs. Do you think I should do some pre-drilling?

So you have 2x10s and 2x8s. How many of each?
I would just do a test drive of the screw in old wood and see if it will go.

 

[JHZR2]

So you have 2x10s and 2x8s. How many of each?
I would just do a test drive of the screw in old wood and see if it will go.

I have two 8’ 2x10 pieces intended to strengthen the ribbon here and on the opposite side (that has no window) for when We are working on hammering the rafters up.

I have two 2x8 179” rafters cut ready to go up. That’s all we will be able to do for this week is get them into place if we are lucky.

 

[Nealtw]

I have two 8’ 2x10 pieces intended to strengthen the ribbon here and on the opposite side (that has no window) for when We are working on hammering the rafters up.

View attachment 728848

I have two 2x8 179” rafters cut ready to go up. That’s all we will be able to do for this week is get them into place if we are lucky.

Yes, I forgot about the 2x10 below. Good.
We will need 6 in place before we start lifting, 3 on each side and then we only lift until the 3 are level across the bottom, then you would need 4 more and take them all up to level across the bottom.
BTW, I think you are doing a fine job and it will get there and the building is worth all the work.
Leaving time between batches of rafters is fine as the old rafters will need time to relax after each time we lift it a little.

 

[Nealtw]

This is strange, we can only wonder what they were thinking.
Is this going to be a problem??

It almost looks like an early repair to counter some sagging. Or maybe it was sagging as they built it.

 

[JHZR2]

This is strange, we can only wonder what they were thinking.
Is this going to be a problem??
View attachment 728863
It almost looks like an early repair to counter some sagging. Or maybe it was sagging as they built it.

there’s actually lumber across those rafters on top of them. Everything looks original.

They’re just small braces, I removed the one easily.

I’m not sure if we screwed something up with our rafters. I used a template, my mini template I can line up and works good.

Everything was set up based upon a 7/12 roof based upon the good unsagged front most rafters.

But the two center ones, when we put them in, looked curious.

The original rafters, short end measurement was 179”. We cut the new rafter as such, and then cut a two inch “seat” cut.

I did the seat cut based upon the actual rafter end cut.

Optically, with it sagging, the heel cut looks about level.

So the rafter, jammed nicely in at the ridge has about 2” from the top plate (of course, because the wall is bowed out), but the seat cut is “level”.

I used this technique to mark my seat cut:

everything is parallel end to end, the rafter is straight, barely any perceivable crown.

Maybe it’s just not that many degrees. Or maybe it’s due to the parallelism of the way things lay. But I’m concerned that we screwed something up.

the short template, when lined up and at the top plate, looks ok.

 

[Nealtw]

there’s actually lumber across those rafters on top of them. Everything looks original.

They’re just small braces, I removed the one easily.

I’m not sure if we screwed something up with our rafters. I used a template, my mini template I can line up and works good.

Everything was set up based upon a 7/12 roof based upon the hood unsagged front most rafters.

But the two center ones, when we put them in, looked curious.

The original rafters, short end measurement was 179”. We cut the rafter as such, and then cut a two inch seat” cut.

I did it based upon the actual rafter end cut.

Optically, with it sagging, the heel cut looks about level.

View attachment 728869
View attachment 728873
View attachment 728872
View attachment 728870
View attachment 728871

So the rafter, jammed nicely in at the ridge has about 2” from the top plate (of course, because the wall is bowed out), but the seat cut is “level”.

I used this technique to mark my seat cut:

View attachment 728876
View attachment 728875

everything is parallel end to end, the rafter is straight, barely any perceivable crown.

Maybe it’s just not that many degrees. Or maybe it’s due to the parallelism of the way things lay. But I’m concerned that we screwed something up.

You cut the seat cut at 3 1/2" like it was going to sit on the wall, and I had said to make that 2" long.
That will weaken it a bit, we should be able to figure something out to support the short end.
A hanger won't reach out far enough to protect it from cracking. see the red line where a crack would start.

We may want to put a 2x4 under it to get full support.

Other than that it all looks good.

 

[JHZR2]

You cut the seat cut at 3 1/2" like it was going to sit on the wall, and I had said to make that 2" long.
That will weaken it a bit, we should be able to figure something out to support the short end.
A hanger won't reach out far enough to protect it from cracking. see the red line where a crack would start.
View attachment 728900

We may want to put a 2x4 under it to get full support.

View attachment 728903
Other than that it all looks good.

Im kind of annoyed. I’m not sure what I did. Well, I know I did cut the seat cut too long, I think I measured the heel to 2”, not the seat, and didn’t count on the thicknessof the base of the square.

That said, the old rafters are 179” from bottom to bottom. We know from geometry that the distance from any point on the one diagonal side to the opposite is the same. So I checked from the point where the seat cut hit the end of the rafter. It measured correctly.

So at this point the rafter should touch the top plate… except that I’m tracking the trajectory from the ridge. But ultimately the tip of the rafter at the seat cut should touch the wall.

If I adjusted the seat cut to be a proper 2”,
It doesn’t make the rafter that much longer at that seat cut point.

What am I missing with making the right measurement besides cutting the seat shorter?

 

[Nealtw]

Im kind of annoyed. I’m not sure what I did. Well, I know I did cut the seat cut too long, I think I measured the heel to 2”, not the seat, and didn’t count on the thicknessof the base of the square.

That said, the old rafters are 179” from bottom to bottom. We know from geometry that the distance from any point on the one diagonal side to the opposite is the same. So I checked from the point where the seat cut hit the end of the rafter. It measured correctly.

View attachment 728924

So at this point the rafter should touch the top plate… except that I’m tracking the trajectory from the ridge. But ultimately the tip of the rafter at the seat cut should touch the wall.

If I adjusted the seat cut to be a proper 2”,
It doesn’t make the rafter that much longer at that seat cut point.
View attachment 728926
View attachment 728925

What am I missing with making the right measurement besides cutting the seat shorter?

If you are just looking at the angles and how they fit to the wall, forget it.
If have a wall the leaning out, the ridge beam is to low and the ridge is closer to the front because you said the back wall was already closer to in place.
We would like to see this. but right now we have it in red

So when you add the new the angle will look strange and hopefully will look right when we are done.

That is why we took the angles and measurement from the good end of the building.
There is no way you could measure the middle one and guess at what the length and angles should be.

 

[JHZR2]

If you are just looking at the angles and how they fit to the wall, forget it.
If have a wall the leaning out, the ridge beam is to low and the ridge is closer to the front because you said the back wall was already closer to in place.
We would like to see this. but right now we have it in red
View attachment 728927 View attachment 728928
So when you add the new the angle will look strange and hopefully will look right when we are done.
View attachment 728929
That is why we took the angles and measurement from the good end of the building.
There is no way you could measure the middle one and guess at what the length and angles should be.

Surprisingly, we measured both the good one and the sagging center ones and they all measured 179”. Maybe this wasn’t unexpected to you, but I wasn’t sure if with years and forces in off directions, if somehow the bad rafters had stretched a bit too…

So my number is 179”, the pitch is 7/12, and there’s no long end or birdsmouth. So it really is as simple as cutting a 179” parallelogram rafter (verify at top and bottom), and then cutting a small seat, with 2” being arbitrary.

I think the challenge may be if the roof doesn’t actually raise as we do this… that outside rafter end will move in somewhat of an arc and hit the top plate, no? I get it that in theory the roof and ridge goes up, but assuming that doesn’t fully happen, at some point the end of the rafter will interfere with the top plate, won’t it?

 

[Nealtw]

It has no choice but to go up, as long as the move when we lift the ends the ridge has to go up.

The 2" seat cut is not arbitrary, 2" will fit a hanger and still give full support to the bottom of the rafter.

 

[JHZR2]

It has no choice but to go up, as long as the move when we lift the ends the ridge has to go up.

The 2" seat cut is not arbitrary, 2" will fit a hanger and still give full support to the bottom of the rafter.
View attachment 728952

Got it about the 2” cut. Measured the hardware I got.

I went and re-checked and re-measured my work.

The rafter bottom length was 179”. I used the base of the measure (and added it) instead of the bent tape shown here, but it’s the general idea:

I measured my template and the other two cut rafters. All correct top and bottom.

You can see the dummy mistake I made, unfortunately on three of them. I don’t think I’ll use them.

I’ll probably just cut them down to 6’ 2x8 and use them for something else.

But I still have the issue of not reaching the top plate. Yes, the wall is bowed. If we don’t get the wall to come back in, or not all the way (I assume we will get it somewhat but never back to vertical), then I really do need to cut the rafters to a longer length.

Or else I assume we will need to permanently widen the top plate? Maybe notch a 2x6 and screw it to the top plate to buy more length and take up some of the gap?

 

[Nealtw]

We can correct those with a block down to the hanger
we can put this piece back in

Ehen you are at the lumber yard se if you can scrounge up some of the steel banding that comes on a full package of lumber. They should have a garbage can full of it.

We can nail that strapping with 1 1/2" hanger nails and you will need the same nails for the hangers anyway.

 

[JHZR2]

OK, fixed my mini template, and now will take that to the long ones.

I’ve noticed that since not all rafters are over studs, that the top plate is starting to droop slightly.

You can just barely see it. Of course this is where the first/center rafter is, and where there is a window below with a terrible bowing out.

 

[JHZR2]

It has no choice but to go up, as long as the move when we lift the ends the ridge has to go up.

The 2" seat cut is not arbitrary, 2" will fit a hanger and still give full support to the bottom of the rafter.
View attachment 728952

OK, we’re about ready to start nailing them to the rafters. I have 3” nails and a gun, will stagger the nails. Only will nail where it is flush to the roof, then start lifting.

Anything else to consider before that?

Once we get the center ones in, the next sets on either side have two 1x6 instead of a rafter. That will make things unbalanced and uneven. I’m thinking to remove one of the 1x6, using a spacer (there are already spacers there), and then putting the sister against the spacer. These photos show the issue:

Should the 2x8 all go to the left, or right sides of all rafters? Or should they all go to the outside or inside (towards or away from the center) of the old rafters?

 

[Nealtw]

I don't think it will be problem just treating the 1x6 just like the 2x6 rafters

 

[JHZR2]

I don't think it will be problem just treating the 1x6 just like the 2x6 rafters

Thing is, the other side is a regular 2x6.

So the two sisters will be about 3/4” offset unless I remove one side.