[JHZR2]

The fix would be the same so yes you would start there as it will be the worst,
How much crap will be in the way of just adding a new rafters?

well I assume I should sure this one up regardless, no?

In time I’d like to sister them all. My hope was originally to get the ridge far enough up that I could cut proper size rafters and slip them in diagonally and then into place.

That dream seems to be slipping away.

There isn’t much of anything in the way of sistering all the rafters and adding more support.

The issue is the severe, seemingly unrepairable wall bow out and the rafter sag.

At what point do I just pull and reframe the entire roof, or even just tear down the building? It breaks my heart to say that but everything is t going right to fix this.

 

[JHZR2]

The fix would be the same so yes you would start there as it will be the worst,
How much crap will be in the way of just adding a new rafters?

so before doing anything else at this moment should I get the angle iron and work that repair?

I was going to get this if so:

 

[Nealtw]

so before doing anything else at this moment should I get the angle iron and work that repair?

I was going to get this if so:

No, you will not be able to lift that up to straight to bolt steel there and then the steel will just be in the way when we do the rafter.
I suggest you cut a rafter that would fit perfectly where the rafters are still good like the end of the building.
We can bolt or nail it to the top and down the rafter to where they stop matching.
Then you can start lifting.

The studs below the wall only appear to be bowing out up near the floor.
They are warped in. lower on the wall. If you put a straight edge against a stud below you will find that down near half height it is bulging inward.

 

[JHZR2]

No, you will not be able to lift that up to straight to bolt steel there and then the steel will just be in the way when we do the rafter.
I suggest you cut a rafter that would fit perfectly where the rafters are still good like the end of the building.
We can bolt or nail it to the top and down the rafter to where they stop matching.
Then you can start lifting.

The studs below the wall only appear to be bowing out up near the floor.
They are warped in. lower on the wall. If you put a straight edge against a stud below you will find that down near half height it is bulging inward.

OK, so tomorrow I’ll find the measurements and cut the end rafters where there should be less sag. I know how to theoretically measure rafters, but with all the sag, any tips?

maybe we will get 2 to 4 rafters in tomorrow, and work from each end towards the center.

I have 2x6, the original rafters there are 2x6, any issues with that? I know somewhere in here someone said to use 2x8, but I have 2x6 lumber, and I’d like to keep weight down. And, I don’t think this will be perfect, so if then 2x6 have some bow to them as I push it all uit may be better off overall. Am I off my rocker with this idea?

Thanks!

 

[Nealtw]

OK, so tomorrow I’ll find the measurements and cut the end rafters where there should be less sag. I know how to theoretically measure rafters, but with all the sag, any tips?

maybe we will get 2 to 4 rafters in tomorrow, and work from each end towards the center.

I have 2x6, the original rafters there are 2x6, any issues with that? I know somewhere in here someone said to use 2x8, but I have 2x6 lumber, and I’d like to keep weight down. And, I don’t think this will be perfect, so if then 2x6 have some bow to them as I push it all uit may be better off overall. Am I off my rocker with this idea?

Thanks!

Every rafter sould be the same so they will all be the same as one with out a sag.
What size rafters do you have, if you have 2x6 now, we want 2x8 for the new as they have to not only do the original work of the rafter but fight the sag in the old ones.
To find the angle of the ends.
Hold a short 2x4 behind a rafter and tight against the ridge and mark the bottom of the bottom of the rafter on the 2x4

Nail another block to that 2x4 to make a jig.

Use that jig to mark the angle of the new.

The bottom angle is exactly the same and the length of the top and bottom of the rafter are exactly the same.

Think about that for a while and I will be back

 

[JHZR2]

Every rafter sould be the same so they will all be the same as one with out a sag.
What size rafters do you have, if you have 2x6 now, we want 2x8 for the new as they have to not only do the original work of the rafter but fight the sag in the old ones.
To find the angle of the ends.
Hold a short 2x4 behind a rafter and tight against the ridge and mark the bottom of the bottom of the rafter on the 2x4
View attachment 728738
Nail another block to that 2x4 to make a jig.
View attachment 728740
Use that jig to mark the angle of the new.
View attachment 728742
The bottom angle is exactly the same and the length of the top and bottom of the rafter are exactly the same.
View attachment 728745
Think about that for a while and I will be back

I have a protractor, square, etc, and can get the angle. Wasn’t sure if the rafters’ fibers stretch in length as they sag…

the jig is a nice idea for templating the new ones….

I have been looking at rafter charts. Looks like I need bigger than 2x8, especially if considering snow load.

My rafters are 24’ on center.

 

[Nealtw]

All or most

I have a protractor, square, etc, and can get the angle. Wasn’t sure if the rafters’ fibers stretch in length as they sag…

the jig is a nice idea for templating the new ones….

I have been looking at rafter charts. Looks like I need bigger than 2x8, especially if considering snow load.

View attachment 728746
My rafters are 24’ on center.

I have no problem going bigger as we are fighting the sag in the old rafters more is better.

 

[Nealtw]

Most lumber has a crown and when we sight along the edge top and bottom we can see it and mark them with an arrow for up.

If you find you have cut it up side down you can always flip it over

And end for end

The square to the end we want a flat spot on the bottom. 2"

Is this making sense so far.

 

[JHZR2]

Most lumber has a crown and when we sight along the edge top and bottom we can see it and mark them with an arrow for up.
View attachment 728747

agree, will do. The attachment you posted on this reply above didn’t load.

 

[Nealtw]

agree, will do. The attachment you posted on this reply above didn’t load.

It did here so it might be taxing your memory, when that happens i close the program and come back and it is there.

 

[JHZR2]

It did here so it might be taxing your memory, when that happens i close the program and come back and it is there.

Yeah they loaded.

I went to measure the rafters…. They are long. Speed square says the non-sagging one is 7/12

I have to think that modern code would require 2x10 or larger for such a span.

I also checked sag from the front backwards.

The very front most rafters have no sag. From there it’s pretty consistent at about a 1/2” difference on my 8’ level, and it is around where the rafter ties are.

My understanding is that building code now has a “derating” for rafters for when the ties aren’t at the top plate…. Fun times.

And I found another crack at a knot in one of the center rafters.

So I guess I’ll try to go get 2x8x16. I don’t even want to know the price of 2x10 or 2x12” that are that long.

And I’m not sure we will get the bowed wall in more once doing this. But it’s a start.

 

[Nealtw]

When cutting rafters there is a language to use instead of a lot of other words.
Long to long
short to short
long to short.
long to square
square to short.
plumb cut
heel cut
seat cut

When ever we can we make one plumb cut and measure long to short because the tape measure will hook on the point at the top of the plumb cut, short to anything is a pain to measure so we avoid that as much as we can.

When you measure your old one a good rafter near the end, you will be measuring from the wall to the ridge along the bottom of the rafter, tricky to measure, you will figure it out. That will be the long to short measure on the new one.

Now for the details,
When you have the lumber you want to sight them all and mark all of them crown up.
Some will be more crown that others
We want to use the straightest one for the first one you cut out as that will be the pattern for all the rest.
And a straight one will be the most likely to fit as a test to where you measured the old.
The pattern will be the last one you put up where less crown is fine.

Then as we are starting in the middle we want to start those with the highest crown.
When you lay the pattern on the next piece to cut, ignore the crown that is sticking up and line up the 2 ends flush with the top,

 

[Nealtw]

Yeah they loaded.

I went to measure the rafters…. They are long. Speed square says the non-sagging one is 7/12



View attachment 728761

I have to think that modern code would require 2x10 or larger for such a span.

I also checked sag from the front backwards.

The very front most rafters have no sag. From there it’s pretty consistent at about a 1/2” difference on my 8’ level, and it is around where the rafter ties are.



My understanding is that building code now has a “derating” for rafters for when the ties aren’t at the top plate…. Fun times.

And I found another crack at a knot in one of the center rafters.



So I guess I’ll try to go get 2x8x16. I don’t even want to know the price of 2x10 or 2x12” that are that long.

And I’m not sure we will get the bowed wall in more once doing this. But it’s a start.

I suspect if we raise them all slowly and evenly that will also pull the walls in,
You will be able to watch this over time you will always be able to come back with more and put some in the middle at 12" on center.
I am not sure how you calculate it but it won't just be a 2x8 it will be nailed to a 2x6 which took how many years to sag like this.
If we get it up and straight, I have some ideas how to hold it in place to fight any future sagging and pushing.

 

[JHZR2]

When cutting rafters there is a language to use instead of a lot of other words.
Long to long
short to short
long to short.
long to square
square to short.
plumb cut
heel cut
seat cut
View attachment 728753 View attachment 728754
When ever we can we make one plumb cut and measure long to short because the tape measure will hook on the point at the top of the plumb cut, short to anything is a pain to measure so we avoid that as much as we can.
View attachment 728755

When you measure your old one a good rafter near the end, you will be measuring from the wall to the ridge along the bottom of the rafter, tricky to measure, you will figure it out. That will be the long to short measure on the new one.

Now for the details,
When you have the lumber you want to sight them all and mark all of them crown up.
Some will be more crown that others
We want to use the straightest one for the first one you cut out as that will be the pattern for all the rest.
And a straight one will be the most likely to fit as a test to where you measured the old.
The pattern will be the last one you put up where less crown is fine.

Then as we are starting in the middle we want to start those with the highest crown.
When you lay the pattern on the next piece to cut, ignore the crown that is sticking up and line up the 2 ends flush with the top,
View attachment 728762

OK one last thing.

The old rafters are 2x6. The perlins for the original cedar roof decking are above that. So I’m going to need to cut the new rafters that are 2x8 or 2x10 a lot further in to sit on the top plate.

The rule is not more than 1/3 of the way across
Right?

I get the rafter hangers, but at the ends at least I’d like to try to fit the rafters to the actual top plate if I can.

Any tips on making that cut? I think it’s different than a usual birds mouth.

 

[Nealtw]

OK one last thing.

The old rafters are 2x6. The perlins for the original cedar roof decking are above that. So I’m going to need to cut the new rafters that are 2x8 or 2x10 a lot further in to sit on the top plate.

The rule is not more than 1/3 of the way across
Right?

I get the rafter hangers, but at the ends at least I’d like to try to fit the rafters to the actual top plate if I can.

Any tips on making that cut? I think it’s different than a usual birds mouth.

View attachment 728763
View attachment 728764
View attachment 728765

You have an angle at the top peak and wall at the bottom we can not get a rafter in both.
That is why I said to measure from the wall to ridge along the bottom of the rafter.
The new rafter will stop just in front of the wall where we will push it up into place,
So when done it should look something like this.

But, this rafter sitting on the wall looks to be different than the others, can you see the reason for that?
I expected all the rafters sitting on the wall would be looking the same at the bottom.

 

[JHZR2]

I got a number of 16’ 2x8 lumber. Not fun to Cary or haul. I’d very much prefer to do it with 2x6 as much as possible because it’s my wife and I putting everything into place.

I went through the 2x8x16 stock at Home Depot. Pretty terrible. And theyre really heavy. I’m thinking to maybe use the 2x8 in the center of the building where there was so much wrong and then use the 2x6 for the end sisters.

Im going to start cutting the template rafter. What should the bolt-up at the top by the ridge be? I was thinking big heavy carriage bolt, not bolted tight, like a 5/8 size maybe, so the rafter can pivot as I lift it?

 

[Nealtw]

I got a number of 16’ 2x8 lumber. Not fun to Cary or haul. I’d very much prefer to do it with 2x6 as much as possible because it’s my wife and I putting everything into place.

I went through the 2x8x16 stock at Home Depot. Pretty terrible. And theyre really heavy. I’m thinking to maybe use the 2x8 in the center of the building where there was so much wrong and then use the 2x6 for the end sisters.

Im going to start cutting the template rafter. What should the bolt-up at the top by the ridge be? I was thinking big heavy carriage bolt, not bolted tight, like a 5/8 size maybe, so the rafter can pivot as I lift it?

We would just use 3" nails , but lots of them, drilling holes for bolts can create a place to start a crack. You want them tight at the top where the angles fit, they won't be pivoting they will be pushing up.

 

[JHZR2]

Ok, I have my mini template.

Which will next be turned into a full length.

 

[Nealtw]

Ok, I have my mini template.

View attachment 728809

Which will next be turned into a full length.

View attachment 728810
View attachment 728811

That looks great can you test fit that on one that has sagged in the middle
I think you will find it fits at the top for just a few feet.
That would be my proof of concept, If I am wrong, will have to re think.

 

[JHZR2]

That looks great can you test fit that on one that has sagged in the middle
I think you will find it fits at the top for just a few feet.
That would be my proof of concept, If I am wrong, will have to re think.

Ok, we used the template, verified short to short and long to long lengths, then cut the long one 179” at its longest point. Wedged it in at the top, and got the following at the bottom:

Of course I need to remove the wire that goes along the top plate, and then cut the opposite side.

No nailing to the ridge, only to the sister, right?