[Nealtw]

What is the size of the ribbon that is holding up the floor joists?

 

[JHZR2]

We could put a 2x4 block between the old rafters and add a double hanger to the new rafter.
View attachment 728178
So when done the hanger moves the load to the block sitting on the wall and would look like this.
View attachment 728183

Oh that’s slick. Are those hangers really designed for that much downward force? Maybe there isn’t that much actually since there still is much weight transferred to the old rafter. I assume the new one will be bolted to the old one in many spots?

I’ll have a look at the Simpson strong tie items. The only issue I see is that ideally the sister is hard against the old rafter, and so I’m not sure how we would connect the hanger on that side and keep the tight touch between rafters.

Maybe it’s just a matter of nailing a 2x4 to the top plate for the new rafters to ride on?

 

[JHZR2]

What is the size of the ribbon that is holding up the floor joists?

1x6 (really 3/4) T&G.

 

[Nealtw]

1x6 (really 3/4) T&G.

Was thinking maybe a 2x10 under the floor joist over the 1x6 screwed with timber screws like 1/4 x5" or 1/4 x4"
Just for the area where we will be lifting, the better areas will not need lifting.
1/4 x 5 Simpson Strong-Drive® SDS Heavy-Duty Connector Screw Double-Ba – FMW Fasteners

Double hangers are 3" wide and you likely need 3 1/2" which will be a beam hanger and some you might need wider and when we use wider hangers we just fill the empty space with plywood or something.
But big hangers cost big too, if we did the 2x10 and if that was successful the wall above the floor makes more sense,
These double shear are expensive and may have to be ordered direct for the sizes you would need.
hhus26-2z double shear scl hanger simpson strong tie zmax (connectorsonly.com)

 

[JHZR2]

We could put a 2x4 block between the old rafters and add a double hanger to the new rafter.
View attachment 728178
So when done the hanger moves the load to the block sitting on the wall and would look like this.
View attachment 728183

I still don’t quite get how I can sister the rafter into place, and attach that hanger.

The hanger gets nailed on both sides to whatever it is connecting to. A sistered rafter will only be able to nail one side of the hanger since it will be up tight. Or is it that a double wide one slides over both of the rafters and there’s a block on the other side?

how would that vertical block be affixed to the top plate?

 

[Nealtw]

I still don’t quite get how I can sister the rafter into place, and attach that hanger.

The hanger gets nailed on both sides to whatever it is connecting to. A sistered rafter will only be able to nail one side of the hanger since it will be up tight. Or is it that a double wide one slides over both of the rafters and there’s a block on the other side?

how would that vertical block be affixed to the top plate?

A double wide hanger is wide enough for 3" you would need one a little wider than that,
I would look like this but the hanger might be a little wider

 

[JHZR2]

A double wide hanger is wide enough for 3" you would need one a little wider than that,
I would look like this but the hanger might be a little wider
View attachment 728220

Ok got it.

the vertical 2x4 - does that just get toe nails or something else?

 

[Nealtw]

Ok got it.

the vertical 2x4 - does that just get toe nails or something else?

Yes, just toenailed or screwed is fine. I am just hoping the joists are below the rafters, I expected to see the old studs in the same line but I see they are not.

 

[JHZR2]

The rater ties are to high toi be rafter ties and to low to be collar ties, they may have been put up to attempt to stop the sagging and they will be fitting you, I would get the jacks set up first so you don't shock load the walls by releasing them Then I think I would hold them up with ropes and just pull the nails at one end so if or when you have success you can just re attach them.
At the peak of you add a 2x4 to both sides with a gap between them in the middle so things can still move, as you go up the 2x4s will close that gap.
View attachment 696826 View attachment 696828
Put a block on top of the posts so you are pushing against the bottom of both 2x4s.

I’m rewinding a bit. I think the roof is actually bowing inwards as I’ve pulled the walls in. And the rafters are bowing downward, not up. Just my gut from looking at it.

Im all for sistering the rafters in a manner like you show, but I want to try to give the center a little bit of help upwards.

You had shown this:

The rafters at the ridge are too uneven between cracking, the irregular 1x6 in place of the 2x6, etc. so I can’t run a long span like you show. I can run a short span between maybe two rafters.

I’d like to lift at a spot between two rafters to push more up. The perlins and everything else may lift up together, or at least help unweight some of the rafters.

I was thinking more of a double 2x4 beam across. Essentially two 2x4 on their long edge, then the block underneath.

essentially this:
/||\
—
||

I’m slightly concerned about the two 2x4 on the top turning sideways under force, but the design you show with the 2x4 on the rafters would only be held there by the shear strength of the nails.

Any thoughts on lifting between two rafters and with this setup? Maybe with small blocks nailed to the rafters, next to the double 2x4, to keep it from moving?

thanks!

 

[Nealtw]

I’m rewinding a bit. I think the roof is actually bowing inwards as I’ve pulled the walls in. And the rafters are bowing downward, not up. Just my gut from looking at it.

Im all for sistering the rafters in a manner like you show, but I want to try to give the center a little bit of help upwards.

You had shown this:

View attachment 728667
The rafters at the ridge are too uneven between cracking, the irregular 1x6 in place of the 2x6, etc. so I can’t run a long span like you show. I can run a short span between maybe two rafters.

I’d like to lift at a spot between two rafters to push more up. The perlins and everything else may lift up together, or at least help unweight some of the rafters.

I was thinking more of a double 2x4 beam across. Essentially two 2x4 on their long edge, then the block underneath.

essentially this:
/||\
—
||

I’m slightly concerned about the two 2x4 on the top turning sideways under force, but the design you show with the 2x4 on the rafters would only be held there by the shear strength of the nails.

Any thoughts on lifting between two rafters and with this setup? Maybe with small blocks nailed to the rafters, next to the double 2x4, to keep it from moving?

thanks!

I am going to disagree, give me a few minutes to draw a couple pictures to explain my thinking.

 

[JHZR2]

I am going to disagree, give me a few minutes to draw a couple pictures to explain my thinking.

Fwiw as the proof of concept, here is what I’ve mocked up.

I understand and appreciate that the vertical is not in the center of the two 2x4 that span the two rafters. That was done for two reasons, one was ease of installation of the vertical support downstairs, the other being keeping the lift closer to the center of the building.

FWIW. Can change it. It’s not like I’m lifting the building inches as part of this proof of concept.

The roof at the dormer is sagging inward, so I do want to help those rafters go up as the walls come in.

 

[Nealtw]

usually we find that the rafter stay reasonably straight and the weight of the roof sags down and the angles of the top of the rafters open up like this.

But I think you have this. With the rafters still in place at the top and the centers sagged.

If we set it up like this and just lift the outer edges.

I think the top goes up as the rafters straighten up

 

[Nealtw]

Fwiw as the proof of concept, here is what I’ve mocked up.

View attachment 728679
View attachment 728681
View attachment 728680

I understand and appreciate that the vertical is not in the center of the two 2x4 that span the two rafters. That was done for two reasons, one was ease of installation of the vertical support downstairs, the other being keeping the lift closer to the center of the building.

FWIW. Can change it. It’s not like I’m lifting the building inches as part of this proof of concept.

The roof at the dormer is sagging inward, so I do want to help those rafters go up as the walls come in.

If you jack it up like that, my fear it as it goes up it will just open the joint between the rafter and the ridge.

 

[Nealtw]

I think if we set it up like this the amount we have to lift the bottom of the rafter will be the same as the top will go up at the same time.

 

[JHZR2]

usually we find that the rafter stay reasonably straight and the weight of the roof sags down and the angles of the top of the rafters open up like this.
View attachment 728674

But I think you have this. With the rafters still in place at the top and the centers sagged.

View attachment 728677

If we set it up like this and just lift the outer edges.
View attachment 728678

I think the top goes up as the rafters straighten up
View attachment 728682

View attachment 728684

So, possibly one of the worst things about the building, frankly, is the fact that the roof has dormers, and that the building directly below on one side has a window.

I don’t recall if I showed it earlier, but the rafter over the dormer is cracked on one side.

The roof sag worse in this are for obvious reasons.

That’s part of the reason why I’d like to help the whole thing in the center.

Not to mention that the wall is still bowed out on the one side. Even downstairs.

And because of this and much more it’s hard for me to be able to really support the push up job from underneath. There’s just not much there to support, and I’d probably have to remove the window, and siding, to get a 1x10 up against the studs.

At what point am I better off tearing down the building, or at least giving up on the roof and having the whole thing pulled off and re-framed?

 

[JHZR2]

If you jack it up like that, my fear it as it goes up it will just open the joint between the rafter and the ridge.
View attachment 728687

Isn’t that the point of slowly pulling in the walls though?

I havent lifted it much but here’s what the ends look like currently.

 

[Nealtw]

I am not sure I knew of the dormer or maybe I forgot.
On the broke rafter can you just tie a string at the top and pull it down to the wall so you are pulling a straight line where the bottom of the rafter should be. Like this straight red line.

 

[Nealtw]

Using a string line like a pro - How to Tie off a string line- quick and simple trick - YouTube

 

[JHZR2]

I am not sure I knew of the dormer or maybe I forgot.
On the broke rafter can you just tie a string at the top and pull it down to the wall so you are pulling a straight line where the bottom of the rafter should be. Like this straight red line.
View attachment 728703

should I fix this first with some angle iron bolted into place?

 

[Nealtw]

should I fix this first with some angle iron bolted into place?

The fix would be the same so yes you would start there as it will be the worst,
How much crap will be in the way of just adding a new rafters?