[ktownskier]

I thought I would start a discussion on the merits of using "traditional" yellow and red wire nuts versus the newer push to connect (PTC) style wire nuts.

And I am sure that this has already been done, but, what the heck, I want to include the WAGO's reusable 221/222 style wire nuts as well.

If you want to include twisting before screwing you can do that too. Although both 3M and Ideal say that twisting before is not required.

I am a geek and fascinated by technology and by things that can make doing jobs easier, better and more efficient. But, they need to actually work better in the long run as well.

So, I was skeptical about PTC wire nuts at first. Kind of like back stabbing switches and outlets. Faster, but, I later learned, prone to failure so I switched back to side wire or back wire.

Are PTC or lever lock wire nuts prone to failure or the way to go?

 

[jbfan]

All connections are prone to failure.
I have found that the failure rate is about the same.

 

[CodeMatters]

The lever locks are great but the cost adds up fast if you you use a lot.

Push ins in general seem to be fine everywhere except outlets.

 

[huesmann]

I like the ease of use with the Wagos, but don't like that they're a little bulkier than wire nuts.

 

[Wiredindallas]

I feel nothing is better than properly installed twist-on connectors, but push-in connectors are more fool proof for the novice. As to twist-on connectors, I prefer live spring type such as 3M and ideal over fixed spring such as Buchanan. Live spring maintains pressure on the full length of the connection as the wire expands and contracts due to heat. Fixed spring grabs the wire bundle on the tip only as it is a rigid cone.

 

[CodeMatters]

Great place to use wagos is when extending really short wires in
switch and outlet boxes. As a side note.....no idea why electricians
decades ago left only 2" of wire in boxes.

 

[brric]

You tube videos. I prefer pre-twisting conductors and then a wire nut. If conductors are pre-twisted, the wire nut can be removed without the conductors coming apart. Essential for testing or troubleshooting.

 

[ktownskier]

I have seen both flat and rectangular PTC connectors. The flat ones seem to fit better inside the boxes.

How are they being treated by inspectors? Both the lever kind and non-lever kind? Any strong objections?

I would think the wago 221/222 would be great for soft stranded wires. I have to replace all of my smokes and that requires I re-wire all the connectors. Lazy me wants to use 221 connectors. Which should be in my UPS shipment today. Unless they drop it at another house like yesterday.....

 

[CodeMatters]

How are they being treated by inspectors? Both the lever kind and non-lever kind? Any strong objections?

Like everything, they must be approved by an authority such as UL.
If approved, inspectors have no choice but to accept....so long
as they're used as intended/tested.

 

[surferdude2]

As I always did, taught and required helpers to do... Create a good mechanical joint by twisting the copper together and cutting the end of the group to flush it all up and then run a proper sized wire nut down until it bottoms out. I preferred Ideal wing nuts but didn't insist on them.

If you strip enough insulation back to allow the copper to be used to lever the twist and cut it off flush and roll it smooth with 8" linemen pliers, the process is quick and easy and will not fail.

If you don't create a good mechanical joint first, you can still nut all the wires together but you'll have more failures... I've seen it proven too many times. The wire nut manufacturers say that method is allowed but they don't have to make the call backs when it fails.

As for any expensive and bulkier way to do this, I wouldn't consider it worth the risk of abandoning a winner and fooling with something that isn't widely used.

ps, Even when soldering wires, always make a good mechanical joint first before soldering.

 

[Oso954]

Great place to use wagos is when extending really short wires in
switch and outlet boxes.

Try the Ideal Spliceline (30-1042). It’s way in front of wagos for that short wire in the box.

 

[taylorjm]

Like everything, they must be approved by an authority such as UL.
If approved, inspectors have no choice but to accept....so long
as they're used as intended/tested.

There are lots of things that are UL listed and not approved by inspectors. For instance, the metal foil flexible vent is UL listed to be used for a dryer, but the code in our state says it can't be used. You have to use the semi-flexible or rigid vent.

 

[Jim Port]

The push to connect connectors do not use the same design as the push in connection on a device. There is a much more robust bearing surface compared to the spring tab.

The push ins are more foolproof for a DIY. You can see if the connection is all the way in.

 

[CodeMatters]

There are lots of things that are UL listed and not approved by inspectors. For instance, the metal foil flexible vent is UL listed to be used for a dryer, but the code in our state says it can't be used. You have to use the semi-flexible or rigid vent.

Perhaps the US is different than Canada in this regard. Be interested
in any electrical examples....seeing as this is an electrical thread.

 

[ktownskier]

Just got my order of WAGO 221 Lever-nuts. (2, 3 and 5 connectors). Looks pretty interesting. Clear all around so you can make sure that you have a good connection. Can't wait to try them out.

 

[ktownskier]

There are lots of things that are UL listed and not approved by inspectors. For instance, the metal foil flexible vent is UL listed to be used for a dryer, but the code in our state says it can't be used. You have to use the semi-flexible or rigid vent.

In a case like this, since it is statewide, it is not set by the inspectors. It would be a state mandated code change.

The same way that the city and county of Chicago requires that all wiring be MC. Even though NM cable is UL accepted.

 

[surferdude2]

maybe it's time to opine on the difference between the numerous UL certifications and bogus ones. Listed, Recognized, Approved, Certified... lots of other supposed UL terms are thrown around, some aren't even valid terms but you can't convince those who think they are.

Most inspectors know the difference between the standard UL Approved Badge and the backward UR badge but some users don't.

If you have trouble sleeping, read all of the site info on the one linked below. It'll cure insomnia I think.
*
*
Are Your Nuts UL Approved or Listed or Recognized
*
*
Whatta ya think it all means!!
*
*

 

[ktownskier]

The push to connect connectors do not use the same design as the push in connection on a device. There is a much more robust bearing surface compared to the spring tab.

The push ins are more foolproof for a DIY. You can see if the connection is all the way in.

Jim,

Can you explain the difference a bit more between the way you are using push to connect and push in connection?

I am not sure that I am comprehending the difference.

thanks, Ktown

 

[Jim Port]

The device uses a piece of material that is deflected when the conductor is installed. You have a small contact area against the ground conductor. The other style push in has contact against the entire stripped length on two sides.

 

[afjes2015]

I prefer the push in Wagos. Being 64 with arthritis in my fingers and hands twisting conductors have become a real problem for me as my fingers cramp up very easily.


The push in Wagos makes it much easier for me now. I am basically retired but still do some work here and there on the side.