[mac1990]

Last year I put in some major yard drainage. It works, no more soggy yard, however, instead of eliminating one issue, it added to it.

Pics of last years work(2 pics):

The issue is the patio/door area, seen in the above pictures. That area has always had water collecting in it, even before I put in the yard drainage. I am now confident it is a combination of ground water and water from my yard drainage. Anything that is too low to enter the yard pipe, has a nice channel to that area.

Picture of the patio area:

I originally cut a hole in the concrete and planned to place a sump pump, however, I eliminated that idea because I did not want to have an exterior sump pump that would cause many issues in my crazy PA weather.

This year I started digging around the patio/door.

Digging progress(3 pics):

My current plan is to do an open french drain around the patio, through my driveway, then to the street. I cannot tie into my existing pipe because this new drain is at least 12" lower.


The plan:

What do you think? I will be using perforated SDR-35 and non-woven geotextile fabric again.

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I also need to rebuild that cinder block patio and pour a new top, ill probably make a seperate post about that

 

[Nealtw]

Has your patio been damaged by frost? Best if you could remove that water right down to frost depth. That doesn't sound like it would be easy.

 

[mac1990]

Has your patio been damaged by frost? Best if you could remove that water right down to frost depth. That doesn't sound like it would be easy.

No idea, but those cinder blocks have probably been exposed to the water for 30+yrs. Some of the joints were like wet sand.

Iv dug down to the concrete footer they poured for the patio blocks. I had to jackhammer the exterior around the blocks a bit just to make that somewhat level.

I may have to completely remove that concrete, pour, then new cinder blocks. I have no idea if cinder blocks are the way to go again.

 

[Nealtw]

No idea, but those cinder blocks have probably been exposed to the water for 30+yrs. Some of the joints were like wet sand.

Iv dug down to the concrete footer they poured for the patio blocks. I had to jackhammer the exterior around the blocks a bit just to make that somewhat level.

I may have to completely remove that concrete, pour, then new cinder blocks. I have no idea if cinder blocks are the way to go again.

A footing for anything should be a frost depth with drainage so maybe you don't have a low water problem then your surface water plan may work.
I would wait a winter after before re doing the patio .

 

[mac1990]

A footing for anything should be a frost depth with drainage so maybe you don't have a low water problem then your surface water plan may work.
I would wait a winter after before re doing the patio .

Right now I am a good 24"(3 cinder blocks) below the garage/basement slab. I don't know where the actual foundation footers are, but they prob dont start much further down. I am also probably cutting it close with slope to the street as it is.

You mean wait just to see if the water problem is fixed? I dont know if that is an option, if I put the pipe in with all that 2B stone, id just have to take it out again to rebuild the patio.

I was planning to use some type of water proof barrier on the patio cinder blocks. Something better than tar. I see a lot of blue colored products, like poly wall's blue barrier.

 

[Nealtw]

Right now I am a good 24"(3 cinder blocks) below the garage/basement slab. I don't know where the actual foundation footers are, but they prob dont start much further down. I am also probably cutting it close with slope to the street as it is.

You mean wait just to see if the water problem is fixed? I dont know if that is an option, if I put the pipe in with all that 2B stone, id just have to take it out again to rebuild the patio.

I was planning to use some type of water proof barrier on the patio cinder blocks. Something better than tar. I see a lot of blue colored products, like poly wall's blue barrier.

Blueskin is good but expensive for that. You can just add a sheet poly to the black damp proofing while it is wet.

You could put a foam board under the slab, that slows the frost process raising the frost depth. There is a chart for that somewhere.

 

[ron45]

Can you show pictures of what it was before (original ).?

 

[mac1990]

Can you show pictures of what it was before (original ).?

What do you want to see exactly?

I have only done a couple things:
1) Removed some crumbling cinder blocks and replaced them with new ones. The new blocks are just sitting there with shims, no mortar.
2) Removed ~24"x24" of dirt around all of the cinder blocks
3) Inside the patio/cinder blocks I cut and dug a hole under the slab for a sump pump(no longer doing a sump pump)

 

[ron45]

What do you want to see exactly?

I have only done a couple things:
1) Removed some crumbling cinder blocks and replaced them with new ones. The new blocks are just sitting there with shims, no mortar.
2) Removed ~24"x24" of dirt around all of the cinder blocks
3) Inside the patio/cinder blocks I cut and dug a hole under the slab for a sump pump(no longer doing a sump pump)

How much of the overall landscape was removed.?

 

[mac1990]

How much of the overall landscape was removed.?

https://imgur.com/a/uDSSJoq

These are the holes for the french drains I installed. ..but as I said, ground water was still in the patio area, I think I just added to it.

 

[Nealtw]

 

[ron45]

Here it appears the ground was higher then the door.?

Did you remove the landscape to install the door and if so how much around the house.?

 

[mac1990]

Here it appears the ground was higher then the door.?

Did you remove the landscape to install the door and if so how much around the house.?

Nope, the door/patio was there when the house was built. The ground was always slopped down towards the door like that.

 

[ron45]

Nope, the door/patio was there when the house was built. The ground was always slopped down towards the door like that.

I would create the 6% slope out to 10' away from the house

Take that measurement and make an average yard.

Put a retaining wall at or near your property line.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/landscaping/retaining-wall/how-to-build-a-retaining-wall/

https://www.familyhandyman.com/land...l/how-to-build-a-treated-wood-retaining-wall/

 

[mac1990]

I would create the 6% slope out to 10' away from the house

Take that measurement and make an average yard.

Put a retaining wall at or near your property line.

Yeah, there has always been a retaining wall of sorts in this area. It was just wooden, part of a deck I knocked down.



If you look at the picture above, you can see I removed 3 4x4 posts that made up the wooden wall/deck. I plan to put a stone wall back once I have all of this figured out. I will also put another pipe at the new stone retaining wall base that will drain into my new open french drain around the patio.

I am not sure how that helps me though? This would just divert a little surface water, which I already handled last year.

I am dealing with deep ground water and run off below my existing french drain.

 

[3onthetree]

I originally cut a hole in the concrete and planned to place a sump pump, however, I eliminated that idea because I did not want to have an exterior sump pump that would cause many issues in my crazy PA weather.

My current plan is to do an open french drain around the patio, through my driveway, then to the street. I cannot tie into my existing pipe because this new drain is at least 12" lower.

I also need to rebuild that cinder block patio and pour a new top

I remember this project, and I have to say, my advice remains exactly the same as from your October thread: https://www.diychatroom.com/f19/enough-support-foot-traffic-670837/

First, when you say "patio" you are actually talking about the small wooden "stoop" or "platform" stepping out of this garage door, not the large patio under the deck 10' to the left of this?

You are dumping the whole network of french drains at one spot right next to this "stoop." You can even see the wet spot in this photo.

Also, there is lower ground water seeping under this french drain system, which makes it to the (probably) lower foundation wall of the basement/garage, regardless whether there is a cistern under this "stoop" or not.

So I am glad you have decided to extend the pipe under the driveway. I would still recommend just eliminating this whole cistern/CMU/pit. Install the french drain along the foundation wall, and daylight it far away from the house as is now planned, 2nd try. The depth of this french drain should be as low as you can get it to still have some slope down to daylight. And, you can connect the network of other french drains to this pipe, so account for that in the pipe size under the driveway.

If you come back a third time and still have that cistern, I might have to drive to PA and sledgehammer it myself.

 

[mac1990]

First, when you say "patio" you are actually talking about the small wooden "stoop" or "platform" stepping out of this garage door, not the large patio under the deck 10' to the left of this?

Also, there is lower ground water seeping under this french drain system, which makes it to the (probably) lower foundation wall of the basement/garage, regardless whether there is a cistern under this "stoop" or not.

So I am glad you have decided to extend the pipe under the driveway. I would still recommend just eliminating this whole cistern/CMU/pit. Install the french drain along the foundation wall, and daylight it far away from the house as is now planned, 2nd try. The depth of this french drain should be as low as you can get it to still have some slope down to daylight. And, you can connect the network of other french drains to this pipe, so account for that in the pipe size under the driveway.

If you come back a third time and still have that cistern, I might have to drive to PA and sledgehammer it myself.

Yeah, just talking about this "stoop". It is just a cinder block platform/hole. I have no idea why the original builders made it this way. It was originally a 4" concrete slab built up with cinder blocks, then another concrete slab on top. No way for water to collect inside until it forced its way in, creating a cistern:vs_laugh:

I did not intend to dump my yard french drain to this area, but it happened..lol Anything that is too low to enter the yard pipes has a nice path there.

Now there is an option to completely destroy this "stoop" and NOT rebuild it. Place pipes, fill the entire area with 2B stone, and, if wanted, pour a 4" concrete slab. People mentioned "filling" in the old thread, but that was before I had plans to run a deeper french drain.

No need to connect the yard drains to this new french drain, they have their own pipe going to the street. This new french drain will be significantly deeper, so it needs its own pipe to daylight. It should catch EVERYTHING.

Believe me, I want this 2nd try to be it. I am so damn sick of digging.

 

[AllanJ]

Does the new French drain flow downhill all the way from the stoop/doorway to the street? Where along the way it surfaces to daylight does not matter.

Given your freezing winter climate, you will usually get superior results regrading the land surface to slope away from the house as opposed to constructing a trench or subsurface French drain.

Incidentally the older French drain should also flow downhill to the street or to some other place away from the house where any overflow would occur and not flow back to the house. .

 

[mac1990]

Few questions:
#1) Place pipe directly on top of the geotextile fabric or some stone first?
#2) Any recommendations on what to coat my foundation wall with? Just tar again or what?
#3) I have to re concrete that hole in the first picture. How difficult will that be with the little bit of water always flowing towards it?