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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's say you paint a ceiling or a wall. Then it dries and you catch an imperfection that needs to be fixed with joint compound or whatever. Then you prime this spot. Then you paint this spot with the same roller cover you used previously. Since you painted the rest of the wall or ceiling with 2 coats of paint, you do the same with the spot you repaired.

However, when the repaired spot dries, it still sticks out from the rest of the wall or ceiling for you can see it's border lines (meaning you have to repaint the entire wall or ceiling to get a uniform look).

I have never understood why this is the case.
 

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because now you have built up additional layers of paint around the imperfection...but it should be very slight...try this..have a friend or friends come over that didnt watch you paint or tell them where the patch spot is...ill bet lunch they wont see it...you know where it is and your eye will go right towards that spot..in a week or 2 you wont even notice or be able to pick it out..just like wallpapering...the small mismatched spot I can see right away because I know where it is, and in a few weeks when I forget about it , I usually cant tell anymore...
 

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Oh you can tell. Even if you stop painting for a few minutes mid wall it could show a change between sections. That's why they say to always keep a wet edge. Some paints are better for touch ups than others.
 

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Let's say you paint a ceiling or a wall. Then it dries and you catch an imperfection that needs to be fixed with joint compound or whatever. Then you prime this spot. Then you paint this spot with the same roller cover you used previously. Since you painted the rest of the wall or ceiling with 2 coats of paint, you do the same with the spot you repaired.

However, when the repaired spot dries, it still sticks out from the rest of the wall or ceiling for you can see it's border lines (meaning you have to repaint the entire wall or ceiling to get a uniform look).

I have never understood why this is the case.
That's a good question, SB...and the answer is sorta simple, and sorta not. There's several factors that may affect how well a paint film touches up - even with the same paint....

Of course, the paint is but one of these factors...Typically, the flatter a finish, the better it will touch-up. A sheened product (eggshell, satin, semi-gloss, etc.) will show areas that have been touched up far more than dead flat finishes. That's not to say an eggshell, or low luster, sheen can't be touched up, but in many cases it may take several days, to several weeks, for the sheen of each application to tone down enough to not be noticed. So, let's say you applied a flat and it still doesn't touch-up...It is very possible that is due to your flat is not really a flat. Many higher quality "flat" paints still have a degree of sheen (typically called "angular sheen") that makes touch-up not quite invisible. These products may be called, within the industry, as "high sheen flats" but still fall within the range of what some would categorize as flat wall paints (0-8 degrees). The reason for the sheen is to provide better washability, stain-resistance and overall film integrity...

But let's say that's not it either - that your paint is simply a mid-grade "dead flat" (sheen level <5). Touch-up should be completely invisible, but it's not. That may, and most probably, has to do with the film build applied overall to the affected area. Let's say you painted a ceiling with 1 coat of a dead flat ceiling paint - then realized you had to repair a damaged surface with spackle, primer and 1 or 2 coats of finish. For this area, the substrate is not the same as what was originally painted (orange-peel textured drywall), as you're now painting over a smooth spackle. Then you apply 1 coat of primer that has to cover the spackle, but also overlap the existing paint from the non-damaged area - now you have a film build difference. Then you apply 1 or 2 coats of the finish paint to the applied primer and create even a greater film build disparity. Since you always view a ceiling at the worst possible angle (parallax), you'll often see the "outline" of the touch up as what you're viewing is, at least, 2 different angles (or facets). If you were to stand directly beneath the touched up area, chances are it would be invisible - but stepping back and viewing it at a parallax, you see the light reflected from the different facets that "appear" as a different color (often times appearing as a "ring" around the touched up spot. As you roll over the area, you will tend to apply the product heavier over the repaired area then "feather" out the edges over the existing paint - and that helps - but due to the film build differences, this "feathering" creates a beveled surface leading up to the heaviest build where the damage occurred.

To successfully touch up in the scenario above, you need to recreate the texture of the area surrounding the repaired area...there are a couple of aerosols "Orange Peel Textures" you can spray on the surface (that in some cases will eliminate the need for a separate primer), then paint over with the original paint to blend in...but the trick here is to not create a noticeable film build difference between the existing paint and the newly applied. To minimize the film build differences (especially if you are working with a high build flat to begin with), is to thin your paint - with water. By thinning with water, you will be applying much less of a film build to the surface, and eliminating the build differences between the 2 apps (It is true that by thinning the product, you may not be able to re-create the texture of the originally applied product, but that's the reason for the spray on "Orange Peel")...

There are other factors that affect how well a coating will touch-up - technique, experience, tools, wall and ambient temperatures at time of application and touch-up, date original product was actually applied versus that of the date of touch-up, etc. When you consider all the factors to a successful touch-up, it kinda makes you appreciate the value of a qualified and experienced painter. I hope some of this info makes sense. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow! This is something you'd expect from an MIT seminar.

It's still sinking in.

Thanks!

That's a good question, SB...and the answer is sorta simple, and sorta not. There's several factors that may affect how well a paint film touches up - even with the same paint....

Of course, the paint is but one of these factors...Typically, the flatter a finish, the better it will touch-up. A sheened product (eggshell, satin, semi-gloss, etc.) will show areas that have been touched up far more than dead flat finishes. That's not to say an eggshell, or low luster, sheen can't be touched up, but in many cases it may take several days, to several weeks, for the sheen of each application to tone down enough to not be noticed. So, let's say you applied a flat and it still doesn't touch-up...It is very possible that is due to your flat is not really a flat. Many higher quality "flat" paints still have a degree of sheen (typically called "angular sheen") that makes touch-up not quite invisible. These products may be called, within the industry, as "high sheen flats" but still fall within the range of what some would categorize as flat wall paints (0-8 degrees). The reason for the sheen is to provide better washability, stain-resistance and overall film integrity...

But let's say that's not it either - that your paint is simply a mid-grade "dead flat" (sheen level <5). Touch-up should be completely invisible, but it's not. That may, and most probably, has to do with the film build applied overall to the affected area. Let's say you painted a ceiling with 1 coat of a dead flat ceiling paint - then realized you had to repair a damaged surface with spackle, primer and 1 or 2 coats of finish. For this area, the substrate is not the same as what was originally painted (orange-peel textured drywall), as you're now painting over a smooth spackle. Then you apply 1 coat of primer that has to cover the spackle, but also overlap the existing paint from the non-damaged area - now you have a film build difference. Then you apply 1 or 2 coats of the finish paint to the applied primer and create even a greater film build disparity. Since you always view a ceiling at the worst possible angle (parallax), you'll often see the "outline" of the touch up as what you're viewing is, at least, 2 different angles (or facets). If you were to stand directly beneath the touched up area, chances are it would be invisible - but stepping back and viewing it at a parallax, you see the light reflected from the different facets that "appear" as a different color (often times appearing as a "ring" around the touched up spot. As you roll over the area, you will tend to apply the product heavier over the repaired area then "feather" out the edges over the existing paint - and that helps - but due to the film build differences, this "feathering" creates a beveled surface leading up to the heaviest build where the damage occurred.

To successfully touch up in the scenario above, you need to recreate the texture of the area surrounding the repaired area...there are a couple of aerosols "Orange Peel Textures" you can spray on the surface (that in some cases will eliminate the need for a separate primer), then paint over with the original paint to blend in...but the trick here is to not create a noticeable film build difference between the existing paint and the newly applied. To minimize the film build differences (especially if you are working with a high build flat to begin with), is to thin your paint - with water. By thinning with water, you will be applying much less of a film build to the surface, and eliminating the build differences between the 2 apps (It is true that by thinning the product, you may not be able to re-create the texture of the originally applied product, but that's the reason for the spray on "Orange Peel")...

There are other factors that affect how well a coating will touch-up - technique, experience, tools, wall and ambient temperatures at time of application and touch-up, date original product was actually applied versus that of the date of touch-up, etc. When you consider all the factors to a successful touch-up, it kinda makes you appreciate the value of a qualified and experienced painter. I hope some of this info makes sense. Good luck.
 

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uuuh, could be the paint you used was so cheap it didn't actually hide in two coats, so when you add two more coats you are actually getting some hide. Does it by chance look whiter after the two additional coats? If so, try upgrading to a better paint.
 

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Let's say you paint a ceiling or a wall. Then it dries and you catch an imperfection that needs to be fixed with joint compound or whatever. Then you prime this spot. Then you paint this spot with the same roller cover you used previously. Since you painted the rest of the wall or ceiling with 2 coats of paint, you do the same with the spot you repaired.

However, when the repaired spot dries, it still sticks out from the rest of the wall or ceiling for you can see it's border lines (meaning you have to repaint the entire wall or ceiling to get a uniform look).

I have never understood why this is the case.

It's because the repaired area is smoother than the surrounding paint.

Paint rollers leave a "nubbly" texture to the paint, and that only comes with multiple coats of paint. If you sand down some joint compound and give it a coat of primer, that primer will dry smoother than the surrounding wall because it doesn't have that nubbly texture that only comes with multiple coats of paint.

Next time, apply your primer with a 3 inch roller, and apply multiple (I usually do 3 or 4) coats of primer to the repaired area, sticking the roller sleeve in a plastic bag between coats (if it's a latex primer) and sticking the roller in a plastic bag and putting it in the fridge or freezer (if it's an alkyd primer). See Note below.

The multiple coats of primer will re-establish that nubbly texture on the wall, so that when you apply a coat of paint, the texture over the repair will match that of the surrounding wall.

I've found that doing that makes it possible to repair nail holes invisibly, and that is very much a big part of what I have to do when tenants vacate.

Note below:

It really doesn't matter if you put your roller sleeve in the fridge or freezer if there's alkyd paint on it. That's because the difference in temperature between a fridge and a freezer typically is only about 10 or 15 degrees, and so it's not all that much. When it comes to water based foods, it's an important difference because once water freezes, any bacteria on the food will also freeze and die, and so freezing something makes it's rate of decay drop to zero. Dead bodies found that were buried in frozen ground from the Franklin expedition to find the Great West passage through Canada's north in the 1800's were in nearly perfect condition after laying in that frozen ground for 150 years. The discoverers kept them frozen to preserve them in that condition.

In the case of alkyd primers, nothing freezes. Keeping the paint roller sleeve in the fridge will prevent the primer on the sleeve from reacting with oxygen to cure and solidify. Keeping that paint roller sleeve in the freezer will keep it colder still, so that theoretically, there should be even less reacting with the oxygen. However, my experience has been that even in the fridge the rate of reaction with oxygen is so slow as to be negligible, so the even colder temperatures in the freezer don't make a perceptible difference when using alkyd primer on a roller sleeve.
 

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One thing I try to do is patch everything first. Then put a coat of paint on everything. Usually with the new coat you see if anything needs to be re patched or anything you missed. This is when you need to do a good inspection. Then I sand patched areas and put a coat on just the patched areas. Lastly I go back and put another coat on everything for a uniform look.
 
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