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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, currently on a complete kitchen refurbish. New glued vinyl was just installed over existing lauan yesterday. Unfortunately it appears a small portion of the underlayment has delaminated and caused a small raised area in two places.
I guess my question is there a chance the places will flatten back out as the glue cures or is it flawed forever? I feel bad for the homeowners and the floor guys, I feel neither is at fault.
Any Response Welcomed
 

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Any real flooring guy would have known not to install vinyl over lauan.
Any vinyl flooring manufacture I've dealt with has warnings against it because of glue holding and stains bleeding through.
Was it installed using a 100 LB, roller?
Highly unlikely it's going to ever level out, it's a one shot deal.
 
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Tileguy
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Ok mr. dodge, who is at fault then? Or at least who is gonna eat this job?

Jaz
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Joe, for your timely response. I just found after research of this situation that lauan is not the best of products for underlayment. However its still a widely accepted material thats used daily even in new construction from various floor companys in this area.
As far as the roller I have no idea. The floor guys feel the only fix is take it all out and redo. I hate to see anyone have to absorb those costs.
 

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Excepted or not it's still wrong, I would have backed out on the job.
Now someone's going to have to deal with it.
No way should a home owner have to pay for it unless they did it there self or signed a reliece saying that's the way they wanted it done.
 

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Thanks Joe, for your timely response. I just found after research of this situation that lauan is not the best of products for underlayment. However its still a widely accepted material thats used daily even in new construction from various floor companys in this area.
As far as the roller I have no idea. The floor guys feel the only fix is take it all out and redo. I hate to see anyone have to absorb those costs.
No vinyl manufacturer will warranty vinyl over luan. It has voids between the plies, the adhesive alone can have enough moisture to make it delaminate and it tends to bleed through and stain the vinyl. Any installer who will use it is a hack. The installer is at fault. A good installer would not have installed vinyl over it, period.
 

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Thanks Joe, for your timely response. I just found after research of this situation that lauan is not the best of products for underlayment. However its still a widely accepted material thats used daily even in new construction from various floor companys in this area.
As far as the roller I have no idea. The floor guys feel the only fix is take it all out and redo. I hate to see anyone have to absorb those costs.
Then I would say you have a lot of flooring companies doing it wrong. Just because a bunch of companies are doing something doesn't mean it's correct. Ever heard the saying if everyone else was jumping off a cliff would you follow them? That applies here. Also your comment about the homeowner eating it? Really? Unless the homeowner did some work or demanded something be done a certain way they have ZERO responsibility here. So as a homeowner should I pay a contractor to remain stupid and uneducated about best practices? Should I pay when a hack does something wrong? The contractor screwed up here and needs to correct the mistake even if they have to tear it all out and start over on their dime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Goodness Guys, I didn't generate this post to bash/blame anyone. I was searching for a remedy to a situation that evidently does not exist. I say the homeowner because he:
1. Took up the old perimeter glued vinyl & cleaned the floor.
2. Went to the carpet store, picked out the new vinyl.
3. Told them it was ready to install.
But some good did come of this post, I've learned a couple of things:
1. Lauan (Lowes Item# 518477) is not a preferred underlayment.
2. Every floor guy I've ever met on the job over the last 30 yrs. is a hack.
3. Don't come here looking for a solution to a problem. It would've been nice to read sorry mrdodge that floor has to come up or they could try ???????? its had some success.
 

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Well, mrdodge, I've found that sometimes these guys get a little particular in this way.

I don't think there is anything that can be done short of taking it up and starting over. Sorry.
 

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Sorry, but we don't like it when someone who doesn't know what they are doing says they are a pro installer. Luan hasn't been an accepted underlayment for 30+ years. It was when I stared in the 70s, but was much better quality in those days and was all there was. Anyone installing for a living should know better.
 

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Goodness Guys, I didn't generate this post to bash/blame anyone. I was searching for a remedy to a situation that evidently does not exist. I say the homeowner because he:
1. Took up the old perimeter glued vinyl & cleaned the floor.
2. Went to the carpet store, picked out the new vinyl.
3. Told them it was ready to install.
But some good did come of this post, I've learned a couple of things:
1. Lauan (Lowes Item# 518477) is not a preferred underlayment.
2. Every floor guy I've ever met on the job over the last 30 yrs. is a hack.
3. Don't come here looking for a solution to a problem. It would've been nice to read sorry mrdodge that floor has to come up or they could try ???????? its had some success.
Ir isn't that it's not a "preferred" underlayment, it violates the warranty because it WILL FAIL.
 

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I have seen a similar situation where the installer cut out a section of the vinyl, repaired the underlayment, and made an absolutely invisible patch. Likely he put the patch piece overtop and cut both at the same time, but I was not there during the work. Of course, this method only works if the pattern on the vinyl permits.

If I were the homeowner, I would have a hard time buying that the underlayment delaminated right after install, by total coincidence. I would be thinking that it had already delaminated, and a pro should have noticed, or the work or adhesive effected the underlayment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks to all who replied, and a special Thank You to Maine, Rusty, and SPS for your cordial, professional and helpful replies. The floor got ripped up today with new underlayment and vinyl lined up for Monday.
If you don't mind could I ask what is an approved underlayment for vinyl/linoleum because I'm willing to bet Monday 6 sheets of luan gets stapled down!
 

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Most stores sell it. It will be stamped underlayment quality plywood.
 

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APA rated as underlayment. It could be softwood, might say something like; A/C or B/C, solid core, face sanded, etc. Should state the glues are waterproof and have an exposure-1 rating. Another type and I think a better quality product is maple underlayment. Also, underlayment specific for sheet goods often come in 4'x4' sheets. It might also help if you would tell us which flooring you have.

It would be easier if you could tell us your choices if more than just one.

Jaz
 
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