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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Remodeling bathroom. Slab! Pulled toilet to remove old tile and install new toilet flange at proper height once new tile is installed. Discovered that original flange is brass, soldered to lead sleeve. Lead sleeve 4” tapering to 3” and glued into 3” PVC closet elbow about 3” below slab. Lead is male; PVC is female. I want to install an offset flange. I’ve removed the brass flange and now just have lead w/ rough edge protruding through slab. Probably should have left well-enough alone and kept original brass flange, but.... BTW, it was not attached to the slab in any way. Guess the lead sleeve was holding it in position.

Question(s): Any way to remove the lead sleeve without damaging the PVC? If I could pull it out, I could glue an offset to the existing 3” elbow. If lead can’t be removed, is there any sort of offset that will seat into the lead sleeve? Thinking of those flanges with the expanding gasket or the ones with multiple rubber(?) flanges that push into existing waste line/elbow? Really don't want to have to solder a new brass flange if it can be avoided. Do they even make brass offset?

Probably won’t be much clearance between anchor points where flange attaches to slab and drain. If I drill for anchor bolts, will I bust up the concrete? Is there an adhesive that would work?

Thanks.
 

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First let me say that I don't know.

I don't know of any kind of adhesive that could have been used. I don't think lead and oaken could have been used because of the heat on the PVC. Even is lead and oaken could have been used I can't imagine how the joint could have been made given your description.

Lead is soft. Probably the lead sleeve was hammered out from the inside to fit the PVC. Whether or not this would give you a water tight seal I don't know

I would pull up and twist the lead sleeve back and forth to see if there is any movement between the sleeve and the PVC. If there is any movement at all, you should be able to cut the sleeve with a chisel and pull it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm told by a guy at Josco Plumbing Supply that the lead sleeve has a PVC ring around the base so it can be glued into the PVC. If that's the case, I'd likely have to cut it out below the connection somehow. That would destroy the 'bell' on the PVC closet bend so I guess I'd need to use some sort of coupling to add a section of PVC that I could then connect to an offset PVC flange. Pics included of sleeve and also an offset that I purchased. I tried pushing the offset into the opening, but couldn't get it to seat deep enough. Didn't want to push too hard in case it got stuck. Was just trying to see how it would work. In any case, I think that even if I'm able push it in further, due to the angle of the offset, it will hit the concrete before it could fully seat, so I'd have to break some concrete to make room for it. At this point, I'm not sure what to do. Not sure what to expect if I start doing demo on the slab. Any further insights welcomed!

 

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If the lead/pvc connection is possible and good (may have to confirm with a cable camera - ask to see such a connector at the store and see if you will be able to see same evidence), and if you change your mind and just use what's there, you can lift the edge, slip in new brass flange, maybe smear a thin coat of wax and beat the lead down over the flange. Use funnel wax ring. Use lead anchor to hold the flange down before beating down the lead, and smear more wax over/around the joint. Make sure the flange is a channel type that has a room beneath for the bolts to slip into. You may want to look for cast type. I've seen cast iron repair flange before. If this makes the flange low, you can add another flange on top with wax seal in between.
Not a plumber but I saw such connection before. It was over a t&g underlayment/mud floor, but looked like there was no leak.
 

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The flange with the red end, are we sure that is for lead. it looks like the connection would be below the slab. so you could chip away concrete in front to make room for that but it looks like some of the lead could be cut away.
Worst case would be if that doesn't work you get right down there and change the pvc fitting like starting over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Don't know that it's specifically designed for lead, but figured given the design it would seal in any uniform cylinder. I suppose given the fact that lead is so malleable, it could deform and thus not seal properly when pressed into the pipe.
 

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retired framer
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Don't know that it's specifically designed for lead, but figured given the design it would seal in any uniform cylinder. I suppose given the fact that lead is so malleable, it could deform and thus not seal properly when pressed into the pipe.
You would think the fill around it would help it stay in shape,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That was my thought when I purchased it. BTW, I found brass offsets, but the bolt holes were located so it would only work for shifting the toilet closer to or further from the wall. I want to move mine sideways to create more space between toilet and tub.
 
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