[coloradomtn]

We have a 2,000 square foot cedar deck. Last year we had a contractor sand back the deck and paint it using Superdeck Semi-Transparent stain in the Douglas Fir color. This is the method and product the contractor recommended.



Four months later the deck started peeling. I've attached photos of the current state (less than 1 year after the deck was freshly sanded and finished). The deck stain that looks in good condition is under cover. The portion that is peeling is not under cover.



I'd appreciate recommendations on how to repair the deck. Do we need to sand back the entire deck and restain using a different product? Could we sand back only the section that is peeling and reuse the same product? My concern with the second approach is we could face the same issue again.


If we need to sand back the entire deck and restain could you please recommend a reliable product. We live at 10,000 ft so the deck often has snow on it.


Thanks for the advice.

 

[mark sr]

Wow, I've never seen a semi-transparent stain peel like that. Have you contacted the contractor about it?


I don't have any experience with staining decks at that elevation or with lots of snow. What were the temps when the stain was applied? was the wood good and dry?

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

A properly prepared and properly applied deck stain will not peel like that be cause it has been absorbed into the wood fibers.
main causes of failed waterborne coatings on decks:


1) not prepped properly. Not Clean, sanded too smooth etc.

Clean first, then sand 60-80 grit. 120-150 grit which is common for interior oil based stains is too high. You will not get proper penetration of the stain which appears to be the case here.


2) Surface contamination. Previous stain intact.
Again Cleaning the surface first then sanding is very important to ensure proper penetration.


3) Over application.
Stains are meant to be applied at a certain thickness. Over application can cause lift and peeling.


All that said I still prefer oil penetrating stains because they are *less prone to failure.

BM326/328/329, Sikkens SRD, TWP, Dalys, etc..


*Oil stains can still fail if you don't do proper surface prep outlined above.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Wow, I've never seen a semi-transparent stain peel like that. Have you contacted the contractor about it?


I don't have any experience with staining decks at that elevation or with lots of snow. What were the temps when the stain was applied? was the wood good and dry?

I have, I can pretty much assure you it is due to poor surface prep.


A this point I would spec removal via chemical strip and sand 60 grit OR removal via abrasive blast.

 

[coloradomtn]

Thanks for the replies! The deck was part of a larger project of media blasting, sanding and staining our log home. The contractor walked off the job at the end of the project saying that they had the underbid the job and lost money. We've reached out to them about the deck issues. They said they'd come and take a look at it but never turned up and have stopped responding to our emails.



To keep the peace we were hoping that we could tackle this ourselves but from what you said (chemical stripping, sanding and staining) it sounds like a pretty big job. We'll reach out to a few contractors and get quotes for the job using the approach recommended here.


Thanks again for the help.

 

[coloradomtn]

I called a few painting and deck contractors and they suggested sanding and restaining but didn't include chemical stripping before sanding. Could you help me to understand the value of stripping before sanding? If we didn't need to chemical strip and only needed to sand and stain we'd be more likely to tackle the job ourselves. Thanks again for the help!

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I called a few painting and deck contractors and they suggested sanding and restaining but didn't include chemical stripping before sanding. Could you help me to understand the value of stripping before sanding? If we didn't need to chemical strip and only needed to sand and stain we'd be more likely to tackle the job ourselves. Thanks again for the help!

Chemical strip ensures all previous stain, waxes, grease, salts are removed from the wood. Sanding alone can results in failure due to contamination.

 

[u2slow]

All painted plank decks peel really quick in my climate. Too many moist months in the year.

I didn't paint my deck for that reason. I redo the green pressure treatment every 2-3 years.

 

[coloradomtn]

All painted plank decks peel really quick in my climate. Too many moist months in the year.

I didn't paint my deck for that reason. I redo the green pressure treatment every 2-3 years.

What is the green pressure treatment. I am not familiar with that. I googled it but not sure I found the right info.

 

[coloradomtn]

Chemical strip ensures all previous stain, waxes, grease, salts are removed from the wood. Sanding alone can results in failure due to contamination.

Gotcha. It sounds like this is a much needed step. It's pretty concerning that all of the contractors I contacted wanted to skip this step.



Would it matter if there was a time gap between doing the chemical strip and sanding? I think it would take me a while to strip the deck. By the time I finished stripping, the area where I started would have been exposed to the elements for a while.



Would renting a floor sander from Home Depot be ok or do I need to belt sand by hand?


Sorry for all the questions! It's a big project and I want to make sure we get it right this time around.

 

[u2slow]

What is the green pressure treatment. I am not familiar with that. I googled it but not sure I found the right info.

Copper Napthanate.

Shows up in various brands... this is what I bought last:
http://www.recochem.com/ca/products/outdoor_products/armor_all_copper_ii_wood_preservative

 

[mark sr]

Would renting a floor sander from Home Depot be ok or do I need to belt sand by hand?

While a floor sander is larger and covers a larger area, I'd expect the deck to go thru a lot of paper. If the nails/screws aren't countersunk they'll rip the paper also the gaps between the boards can snag the paper. IMO a belt sander isn't a great option either. If I had to sand I'd use a quarter sheet orbiter sander.

 

[Taras2]

Are you sure it was a stain not a deck paint.

I got fooled and used a deck paint 2 different times. The last time Lowe's assured me and so did the manufacture of the product, it will not peel off. They did refund my money for the deck paint I did have my receipt. What a mess I have now. Waiting for more to peel off a few years then sanded power washed and waiting again, sanded, power washing etc. when it is all off I will only use a Deck Stain not a deck Paint.

 

[RanK2]

The odds of 'peeling' being caused by the paint are 1 in 1000, maybe 5000. ..... ALL paints are thoroughly tested at the factory before going to market. ...... Paints are made in 200 to 5000 gallon batches. ...... If ONE gallon is bad, they are ALL bad. Releasing a faulty product can cost a company millions of $ in liability, not to mention lost customers. ...... And even a 'recall' will cost you a bundle.

The chance of the peeling caused by prep, 9 out of 10.

 

[mark sr]

While improper prep is probably the #1 cause of coating failure, using the wrong coating for the job at hand also plays a big part. IMO exterior floor paint should never be used on an uncovered deck. Deck coatings have a short life because of the increased exposure to the elements and the fact that water will stand it for a time.


That said the OP stated a semi-transparent deck stain was used. Right choice of coatings but likely improper prep or conditions when the stain was applied.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

The odds of 'peeling' being caused by the paint are 1 in 1000, maybe 5000. ..... ALL paints are thoroughly tested at the factory before going to market. ...... Paints are made in 200 to 5000 gallon batches. ...... If ONE gallon is bad, they are ALL bad. Releasing a faulty product can cost a company millions of $ in liability, not to mention lost customers. ...... And even a 'recall' will cost you a bundle.

The chance of the peeling caused by prep, 9 out of 10.

I have seen bad batches of paint, its not impossible but 99/100 its environmental or user error.

 

[Taras2]

Hi, Everything was done exactly as the manufacturer said it should be done before painting the deck with deck paint as instructed by the co. There was a problem with this product and a class action by all that used it. So everyone that complained to the company and kept receipts received a refund on the cost of the product.

Regarding the first time I used deck paint I also followed all instructions and when I had problem with the paint coming off the deck this manufacturer offered me a power washer for free for me to pick up at the local box store. They must of known there was a problem with there product and very fast gave me a power washer.



I am real good with following all instructions from the co. I am dealing with. If there was something I didn't understand I also called the manufacturer so I could get all info before doing any deck painting.


In my opinion it seems like when the sun hits the pressure treated deck it peels off after awhile. Deck paint does not penetrate the pressure treated deck but sits on top of the deck while stain is very different. I found deck paint ends up like a layer of special paint that sits on top of pressure treated wood and separates all over the deck and keeps peeling off every year if you don't remove it.

I will not use deck paint ever again on my decks. I will only use deck stain and sealer now. I had this problem 2 times with different products and used good products and paid dearly for it to only give me problems. It is not so uncommon for this to happen with deck paint. If the manufacturer didn't have a problem with there product sticking to pressure treated wood they would not give me anything for my problem if I did something wrong, and I did not do anything wrong.

 

[coloradomtn]

At the advice of our contractor we selected Superdeck Semi-Transparent stain in the Douglas Fir color. I still have a few tins left so I'm sure this was the product used. The contractor said a semi-transparent stain would last longer than the transparent stains that we had used previously.



When we previously used transparent stains they aged but never peeled. The semi-transparent stain has peeled very badly in the areas exposed to the elements. It's super ugly compared to the look of our previous aged transparent stain.



I'd like to remove all the current semi-transparent stain and go back to an oil based transparent stain.



Would it matter if there was a time gap between doing the chemical stripping and sanding? I think it will take me a while to strip the deck. By the time I finished stripping and I am ready to start sanding, the area where I started stripping would have been exposed to the elements for a while. Is this a problem?



Most of the nails are countersunk in our deck and I'm happy to spend extra on sandpaper, if I can rent a floor sander from Home Depot to speed up the project.



My big concern is making sure the prep is done correctly and in a timely manner. Our deck is huge (2,000ft). I'd be doing this job by myself as my hubby is out of action with an injury. I'd hate to put in a month or more of effort and have the same issue occur.



As a reminder, we live at 10,000ft and the deck spends a good part of the year with snow on it.


Thanks, everyone for the advice!

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Hi....

I lived at 7650 in the foothills (recently retired to NV) for thirty years.

I had approx 2000 ft of pretty good redwood decking...(redwood well culled from 25 years ago when rtedwood was red).

I've seen alot of deck surface failures in our intense winters and intense (high UV) summers.

After f'n around in our early years with solid and semitransparent stains...I gave up, rented HD vibrating plate sander and alot of 60-80 grit pads and took it down to fresh...my deck was scredwed so I had to countersink a few screws.

I went with Cabot oil (I think Sikens is equally good). They have two levels of their stain/oil...I used the best grade.

Got decent 2-3 year coverage with it. A big advantage was that in the most exposed decks, I could feather in maintainence coats and recoat with just a cleaning after 3 years.

Hate to tell you, but wood decks at our mtn conditions, are a maintenance nightmare.

On my subsequent third party remodeling, I would not put in wood and ran with the "plastics"...plus you can't buy reasonably any good redwood any longer.

( On my own home because it was basically good redwood, I put up with the maintenance, ...it is beautifull when finished, but they make some really good "plastic" products" now.)

The plate sander is heavy, but very easy to use. Unless you have a lot of experience, I would not f with a drum sander.

Good luck.......

 

[RanK2]

BTW, have been using latex S/G (any S/G) on my wooden back steps for years. Fully exposed to sun, daily foot traffic, and weather. Repaint approx every 3 years just for looks. It NEVER peels.