[Earnie]

Pulled out the 240v convection microwave and found it connected to a 12/2 wire. Microwave is four wire; neutral and ground were wire nutted to the 12/2 ground wire.


Will need to pull a new four conductor wire. Microwave needs 20 amp breaker so I'll likely use 10/3. Correct?


How do you correctly deal with the old 12/2 wire in the wall?


Since this is in the kitchen I will probably change the breaker to GFCI.


Anything I'm overlooking?

 

[Kevin_Essiambre]

Pulled out the 240v convection microwave and found it connected to a 12/2 wire. Microwave is four wire; neutral and ground were wire nutted to the 12/2 ground wire.

Interesting. That should not have been done.

Will need to pull a new four conductor wire. Microwave needs 20 amp breaker so I'll likely use 10/3. Correct?

For a 20 amp circuit you can use 12/3, but there's no harm in using larger wire, it will just be a little harder to run.

How do you correctly deal with the old 12/2 wire in the wall?

I would cap it in a box on both ends, should you need it in the future for something else. It's nice to have.

Since this is in the kitchen I will probably change the breaker to GFCI.

I cannot comment on this, as where I am, we have different codes compared to you.

Anything I'm overlooking?

Nothing that immediately comes to mind.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[rjniles]

Florida is on 2014 NEC, GFCI is not required on 240 VAC circuits.

 

[Earnie]

Thanks Kevin and rjniles for the help and information.

 

[crtcrln]

Code is a minimum standard. New codes are updated because of concerns and issues with old codes. Won't hurt to follow newer standard and have better protection.

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[rjniles]

Code is a minimum standard. New codes are updated because of concerns and issues with old codes. Won't hurt to follow newer standard and have better protection.

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Some new codes are driven by electrical equipment manufacturers concern that they are not selling enough product.

NEC is not a minimum standard. To say that is like saying a recommended medicine dosage is a minimum standard and doubling it would be better.

 

[crtcrln]

Some new codes are driven by electrical equipment manufacturers concern that they are not selling enough product.



NEC is not a minimum standard. To say that is like saying a recommended medicine dosage is a minimum standard and doubling it would be better.

You're not comparing apples to apples. Anything below code as written would be a violation unless an inspector approves it. Manufacturers build new equipment to align to new codes. They don't build equipment so a code can apply to it. I see equipment manufacturers build to help us save time on install and in turn increase profits. Of course not every code updated is perfect that's why code is updated after field installs show less than perfect success. You have a choice on what you want to spend on material but it still has to meet code. Nothing else produced would be legal. As a contractor I have to stand by my work both in material and labor. Plus it keeps my insurance reasonable.

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[seharper]

I think rjniles' point is that manufacturers have been pushing very, very hard.

The big leap was NEC 2014, and many states were very reluctant to adopt it, and so "they" (NFPA apparently, industry really) started LOBBYING to get it passed, did a PR propaganda campaign and everything. Many states took to the NEC 2017 cycle to relent to NEC 2014, so 2017 added very little in new financial burden... but now with 44 states onboard, they went back to "whole hog spending builders' money" in NEC 2020, with many new expensive requirements including $80 2-pole GFCIs and whole house surge suppressors in every panel.

Surge suppression!?? Are you kidding me!?? What next, fuzzy dice?

AFCI is most needed in older homes with roached/cloth/K&T/aluminum wiring, yet they're forcing it into new construction where it mostly detects backstabs.

It reminds me of NHTSA... after they scored their big victories on Ralph Nader's behalf, the war was won, the job was done. But instead of disband, they just cast about for more and more improbable and unproductive safety apparatus to require - high mounted center brake lights, fretting about front child seats intersecting with the airbags *they insisted on*, etc. They basically caused the epidemic of infants being forgotten in cars. (because what happens in parked cars doesn't show up on their scoreboard).

 

[crtcrln]

I see your point. I do think Mike Holt has become more involved in code changes and is even made them more aware of code issues especially grounding and bonding which I follow due to my work at some marinas here. My main issues with code have to do with the afci codes and not having reliable parts available which brings out callbacks which makes you look like your providing substandard material for a job. Hate wasting time explaining my parts choice. Now after leaving a job I give them the device info and a little paper on how to reset their device or breaker. I get my jobs now from recommendations so I save advertising costs but really hate callbacks due to some new codes.

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