[akimbo]

I'm impressed with the stats on the new technology in electric convection heating panels (Econo Heat). They use only 260 or 400 watts are about 18 inches square and are about 1 inch thick. Evidently they have been in use in Europe for some time but are new in North America. Anyone have any experience with these, good or bad? I'm looking to replace oil heating in our 1200 sq ft rancher and like the idea that, unlike conventional electric baseboard heaters, I wont have to upgrade our electrical service to accommodate these heaters and they are very affordable. Links below to two companies. Any thoughts? thanks.

US: http://www.eheat.com/site/products.php
Canada: https://www.econo-heat.ca/faq.html

 

[Yoyizit]

They use only 260 or 400 watts
I'm looking to replace oil heating in our 1200 sq ft rancher and like the idea that, unlike conventional electric baseboard heaters, I wont have to upgrade our electrical service to accommodate these heaters and they are very affordable.

How much for oil and elec. in your area?
1 Therm of energy can be had from approx. 0.71 gal of fuel oil, 29 kwh of elec heat or 8.4 kwh of heat pump heat.

 

[akimbo]

Oil is $1.05/Liter or $4.00 a gallon. Electricity is 5 cents per kW.h. This past winter our oil costs were about $3,000 or 430/mo from October to April and our electricity was about $120/mo (that's with a few electric space heaters plugged in). Electricity is relatively cheap here (British Columbia).
We just purchased this house last September and it's the first time we've had oil heat. We were shocked at the cost. We tripled the attic insulation and may also upgrade the windows which I know will help, but the cost is about 10,000 for the windows. These heat panels only cost about $94 each, delivered--much cheaper than baseboards and, according to them, much more efficient, and better at circulating air throughout the room. We thought it might a be a cheap way to add a supplementary heating system to the house for only about $1100 plus the cost of thermostats and installation. You can easily install them yourself but it would be nice to have wall-mounted thermostats so we expect to have some electrician costs. But, there isn't much info out there about people's experience. If it's too good to be true . . . still, I believe we are well overdue to more efficient heating technology, and this may very well be a step in the right direction.

 

[beenthere]

A conventional electric baseboard heater that uses 400watts(about the size used in a bathroom). Will provide 1,365 BTUs of heat.

One of those Econo heat panels that uses 400 watts will provide 1,365 BTUs of heat.

They just look nicer.

 

[Yoyizit]

For Whistler, BC

Month starting HDD
10/1/08 682
11/1/08 826
12/1/08 1301
1/1/09 1170
2/1/09 1000
3/1/09 1054
4/1/09 735

So 750 gals of oil giving 1100 therms for 6800 HDD for 180 days for 1200 sq. ft.
6.1 therms/day
1200 sq. ft gives 6.1/1200 = 509 BTU/day/sq.ft.
6800/180 = 38 HDD in one day
509/38 = 13 BTU/day/sq. ft./HDD
That is, if you're in Whistler.

For a house in DC,
838 therms of NG in 90 days = 9.3 therms/day
3100 sq. ft. including basement gives 9.3/3100 = 300 BTU/day/sq.ft.
2658 HDD/90 = 30 HDD in one day
300/30 = 10 BTU/day/sq.ft./HDD

 

[beenthere]

509/38 = 13 BTU/day/sq. ft./HDD
That is, if you're in Whistler.

13*1200=15,600*65=1,014,000/140,000=7.2428

So on a 65HDD day. He used 7.24 gallons of oil?

 

[Yoyizit]

13*1200=15,600*65=1,014,000/140,000=7.2428

So on a 65HDD day. He used 7.24 gallons of oil?

You know I can't do math!

Well, he did use 750 gals in 180 days = 4.2 gals/day for the avg. 38 HDD for each day.
4.2(65/38) = 7.2.
If there is a mistake it must be farther upstream. Maybe he lives in a warmer or colder place than Whistler.
http://www.degreedays.net/

 

[akimbo]

A conventional electric baseboard heater that uses 400watts(about the size used in a bathroom). Will provide 1,365 BTUs of heat.

One of those Econo heat panels that uses 400 watts will provide 1,365 BTUs of heat.

The bathroom size Econo is 260 watts. The 400 watt size will heat a 10 x 10 room. So I'm comparing what I think will be a 1500 Watt baseboard heater for a bedroom to a 400 watt Econo panel.

 

[akimbo]

You know I can't do math!

Well, he did use 750 gals in 180 days = 4.2 gals/day for the avg. 38 HDD for each day.
4.2(65/38) = 7.2.
If there is a mistake it must be farther upstream. Maybe he lives in a warmer or colder place than Whistler.
http://www.degreedays.net/

Sorry. The entire house is 2000 sq ft, however the basement suite doesn't get much of the air flow from the oil heater. They relied more on space heaters. The house is in Victoria which is a warmer place than Whistler, but it was a cold winter this year. It's Zone A: <= 3500 HDDs, the mildest zone in Canada--that's why we bought there

 

[beenthere]

When I said the size for a bathroom. I was refering to a standard/conventional electric baseboard heater. They are anywhere from 250 to 500 watts.

I wouldn't believe them 100% about a 400 watt heating a 10x10 room.(Same amount of heat as 4-100 watt light bulbs)

If that was true. Then if you got 12 of the 400 watt ones. You could heat your whole house with 4,800 watts. Or, 16,382 BTUs.

It will probably heat a 10x10 room at some temps, but don't bet on it being ablet to do so at your coldest winter temps.

 

[akimbo]

... I wouldn't believe them 100% about a 400 watt heating a 10x10 room.(Same amount of heat as 4-100 watt light bulbs)

If that was true. Then if you got 12 of the 400 watt ones. You could heat your whole house with 4,800 watts. Or, 16,382 BTUs.

It will probably heat a 10x10 room at some temps, but don't bet on it being ablet to do so at your coldest winter temps.

Yes, in fact I've read some user criticisms saying that on really cold days they were inadequate, but they were reporting from colder climates. Plus I would hope that a 400 watt convection heater would have better circulating efficiency than 4 light bulbs. :laughing:

 

[beenthere]

Actually, 4 light bulbs of the proper type, would heat better.

Remember, convection means it heats the air.
Which is ok.

A light bulb heats objects by radiant heat, which means you feel warmer. Without creating cool air currents.

Heaters like that, are great for adding additional heat. To rooms that are hard to heat.
Or for rooms/areas that you don't heat all the time. And keep the registers closed when not using them. And don't want to have to turn up the stat, and heat the whole house. Just to heat that room/area for an hour.

 

[akimbo]

So, do you feel the same way about convection heaters, such as http://www.convectair.ca/caen/produit/allegro.html#fiche. Our electrician is not familiar with the Econo Heat, but he has the Convectair and loves them; so does our contractor, but they are about $500 each. Think a 500 watt one would be no different than 5 light bulbs, or no different than a standard electric baseboard?

 

[beenthere]

Its just a pretty package.

For every watt consumed, you'll get 3.413BTUs of heat. The same as a conventional electric baseboard heater.

Those are probably never going to give you a crackling sound like a regular baseboard can when it gets old.
but, it wil cost the same, for the same amount of heat.

 

[Yoyizit]

For heat loss, your house is at d
.... .a..b..c.d
0....5.....10.....15..
out of a sample of four houses in North America.

 

[akimbo]

For heat loss, your house is at d
.... .a..b..c..d
0....5.....10.....15..
out of a sample of four houses in North America.

Thanks for doing the math. I presume that "d" stands for "Failed Miserably in Energy Conservation." We are meeting with an energy assessor on Thursday. Will see what he has to say. :/

 

[Yoyizit]

Thanks for doing the math. I presume that "d" stands for "Failed Miserably in Energy Eonservation." We are meeting with an energy assessor on Thursday. Will see what he has to say. :/

This study
http://www.focusonenergy.com/files/Document_Management_System/Evaluation/weshbillingstudy_report.pdf
seems to say that, for 9 yr old houses in Wisconsin,
"the overall stock of Wisconsin single-family homes,
. . .has an average heating intensity of 4.4 BTU/ft2-HDD"
If you assume 75% efficiency for gas and oil burning appliances your house comes in at closer to 0.75(11) =~ 8.

 

[akimbo]

"the overall stock of Wisconsin single-family homes,
. . .has an average heating intensity of 4.4 BTU/ft2-HDD"
If you assume 75% efficiency for gas and oil burning appliances your house comes in at closer to 0.75(11) =~ 8.

Thanks for the reference. I glanced through it and I see that I'm going to have to wrap my head around the heating intensity units. Currently I don't get it.

I spoke to the Econo Heat people again today and they said that their 400 Wall unit yields 1000 BTU.

 

[beenthere]

Thanks for the reference. I glanced through it and I see that I'm going to have to wrap my head around the heating intensity units. Currently I don't get it.

I spoke to the Econo Heat people again today and they said that their 400 Wall unit yields 1000 BTU.

Then its a very inefficient heater.

Since a regular baseboard heater using 400watts, would give you 1,365 BTUs.

1000/1365=.732

So its only 73.2% efficient.

 

[Yoyizit]

Then its a very inefficient heater.

Since a regular baseboard heater using 400watts, would give you 1,365 BTUs.

1000/1365=.732

So its only 73.2% efficient.

It's also not possible.
If 400w goes in then 1365 BTU/hr must come out as something; heat, light, radio waves, noise, mechanical motion, something.