DIY Home Improvement Forum banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
@jeffnc My primers tend to be all INSUL-X products: STIX, Aqua Lock, Prime All, Prime Lock Oil Based (Not so much but it has its place). INSUL-X does only primers and I have never been disappointed. IMHO, they make the best primers. None are PVA. At one time they did industrial primers but I don't see those any more. They had one that made me laugh years ago, it said something like "will withstand 2000 degree temperature, only comes in black.) I thought, at that temperature is one really concerned about the color! Maybe BM dropped those when they purchased INSUL-X.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
I do not believe in paint & primer in one unless it's timeless or revolution, mainly, self priming paint is a lie!
A "lie"? What does that even mean? lol Considering the fact that different primers solve different problems, there really isn't any such thing as "paint and every primer you'd ever consider using in one". It's meant for drywall. And the fact is, there isn't much of a problem to solve with drywall. So yes, quality paints are self priming over drywall, or if the language bothers you that much, then a primer isn't needed over new drywall. If the manufacturers warranty covers it and the instructions specify it, then it's good. If it's not good, then the product is as fault.

I'd love to hear you guys argue the other side of this coin - that you can ignore manufacturers instructions.
 

·
Chaz
Joined
·
124 Posts
A "lie"? What does that even mean? lol Considering the fact that different primers solve different problems, there really isn't any such thing as "paint and every primer you'd ever consider using in one". It's meant for drywall. And the fact is, there isn't much of a problem to solve with drywall. So yes, quality paints are self priming over drywall, or if the language bothers you that much, then a primer isn't needed over new drywall. If the manufacturers warranty covers it and the instructions specify it, then it's good. If it's not good, then the product is as fault.

I'd love to hear you guys argue the other side of this coin - that you can ignore manufacturers instructions.
Mfg warranties cover "one coat paints" which is also just hype. A warranty doesn't undo the problem it causes. Doesn't get you back your time or labor cost. Doesn't make your customer happy. You just get a few bucks back for the paint--which people seldom take the time to recover. It's not about ignoring mfg instructions--just their hype . I use a primer or PVA over new drywall + 2 quality finish coats at mfg suggested coverage rate. You do you. No need to argue.
 
  • Love
Reactions: J.Temple

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
A "lie"? What does that even mean? lol Considering the fact that different primers solve different problems, there really isn't any such thing as "paint and every primer you'd ever consider using in one". It's meant for drywall. And the fact is, there isn't much of a problem to solve with drywall. So yes, quality paints are self priming over drywall, or if the language bothers you that much, then a primer isn't needed over new drywall. If the manufacturers warranty covers it and the instructions specify it, then it's good. If it's not good, then the product is as fault.

I'd love to hear you guys argue the other side of this coin - that you can ignore manufacturers instructions.
If you think that paint will work, go for it. I won't. I have had to many repaints where the first painters did not use a proper primer. I follow instructions, thank you very much! AND ANY THING I POST HERE IS ONLY IMHO!! Others can do as they like and believe what ever they like. 46 years a painter, my opinions are pretty unshakable when it applies to any contract I'm doing.
 

·
Chaz
Joined
·
124 Posts
If you think that paint will work, go for it. I won't. I have had to many repaints where the first painters did not use a proper primer. I follow instructions, thank you very much! AND ANY THING OI POST HERE IS ONLY IMHO!! Others can do as they like and believe what ever they like. 46 years a painter, my opinions are pretty unshakable when it applies to any contract I'm doing.
Being as this is a DIY chatroom, beginners would do well to follow tried-and-true methods like JT here is saying. They will always work. I've never seen a properly primed job fail. I've fixed plenty of ill-prepped disasters. Take shortcuts at your own risk. That's another way to learn--It's called "the hard way."
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: J.Temple

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
Mfg warranties cover "one coat paints" which is also just hype.
What's wrong with you people? Of course some paints go on in one coat. It all depends on the amount of solids in the paint, the color of the paint, the color of the wall, etc. etc. This has always been true. You DO understand different paints have different formulations, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
46 years a painter, my opinions are pretty unshakable when it applies to any contract I'm doing.
Not surprising really. Most contractors I know who are older have been doing things the same way for 30 or 40 or 50 years because "that's just the way it is" and "that's the way I've always done it." It's just as important to stay current with modern technology as it is to do it right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
Being as this is a DIY chatroom, beginners would do well to follow tried-and-true methods like JT here is saying. They will always work. I've never seen a properly primed job fail. I've fixed plenty of ill-prepped disasters. Take shortcuts at your own risk. That's another way to learn--It's called "the hard way."
We're not talking about "ill prepped". And no, they don't always work. And of course professionals and DIYers both SHOULD be looking for "shortcuts" - that's how progress is made. Why aren't you painting with all oil paints? I mean, that's how they did it 100 years ago. Professionals would do well to never stop learning just because they figured out one way to do it.

I assume you live in a house. Why wasn't it built with 2x6s in the walls? Why isn't plaster used much any more?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
What's wrong with you people?
I don't know that there is anything wrong with us people! Now, about you, after that bit, I'm not so sure. A lot of the painters here have MANY long years of experience, if that makes for "something wrong" with us, so be it. Might I ask how many years of real world painting experience you have? We do what produces the best job. The only reason for changing methods or materials is if it produces a better result. Not one of us has not changed methods or materials over the years, that was just a shoddy bit of s**t! Most "shortcuts DO NOT produce a quality result! Try finding short cuts to a level V finish! The mudders and tapers never leave it that well done, it's left up to the the painters to do the final skim coat. Somethings, there are just no short cuts!! BTW: You are starting to come off as being quite rude and more than a little arrogant. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
I didn't say that, as you know, and if you think I did then you're not paying attention.

You didn't answer my questions.
"I didn't say that, as you know, and if you think I did then you're not paying attention." No, You asked "What's wrong with you people?" Which suggests you think there IS something wrong with us people!

To answer your questions: "I assume you live in a house. Why wasn't it built with 2x6s in the walls? Why isn't plaster used much any more?"
Old growth 2X6s are still the best framing material there is. My house is a 1911 build with solid old growth, oak trims, great, huge, old growth beams and solid as a rock! It has stood strong for over 100 years and cared for will stand a 100 more! The walls and ceilings are all plaster and much nicer with a longevity that far surpasses wall board. The bricks are true, clay, kiln fired, 2 layers thick! Still the best material after field stone. Oh, the 100 year old plumbing is still sound! though I plan on replacing it and can not afford to redo all that old iron, but it certainly stood the test of time better than anything used today. Copper is still the best at the current time. Show me any house, built today, that will last as long and as well. Its deficiencies are easy remedies, new wiring, new plumbing (Not necessary but I want to make changes in the layout so,,,) and insulation but the "bones" are sound. Most of the new methods and materials are made for economy & speed in building and are, definitely, not better, in most cases. Paint, wiring and insulation are exceptions. Plaster is still used! The best houses still employ plasterers, mainly in Europe. Why don't we do things this way any more? Because we want cheap and fast. I would never buy a newly built house! I did that once and the roof was badly bowed after only 5 years. I thought at the time, "Who builds a roof that won't stand 5 years??!!" Does that answer your questions? AND You did not answer my question about your real, world, painting experience.

I could go on and on about why a house built at the turn of the century is a much better build but I think I have made my point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
To answer your questions: "I assume you live in a house. Why wasn't it built with 2x6s in the walls? Why isn't plaster used much any more?"
Old growth 2X6s are still the best framing material there is.
No, you are wrong. They are not even close to the best framing material there is. 2x8s are much stronger, everyone knows this. And 2x10s are stronger than that.

I'm sorry to tell you, but they cut corners in your house.

Its deficiencies are.....
Ah, here we go.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
No, you are wrong. They are not even close to the best framing material there is. 2x8s are much stronger, everyone knows this. And 2x10s are stronger than that.

I'm sorry to tell you, but they cut corners in your house.
Ah, here we go.....
Again, show me any new house built today that will stand strong for 100 years. BTW: 2X 6 are used in many houses today to allow for an excess of insulation. But after this, I politely ask you refrain from tagging me, replyong to me or having anything to do with. I get it, you know more about all of the trades than anyone who has specialized in those same trades. You are the wizard of building tades. Good for you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,474 Posts
Again, show me any new house built today that will stand strong for 100 years.
Any house built with 2x8s will last longer than that. It allows for more insulation too compared to 2x6s.

Also, 3 coats of paint is more durable than 2 coats of paint, so really you're just ripping your customers off and cutting corners if you only use 2 coats.

If a contractor came to my house and told me he'd been doing work the same way for 50 years, I'd never hire him.
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
Top