Nest Thermostat...Discussion...

The C wire adapter is not needed - get rid of it.

The yellow wire can be connected to C on both ends.

Now, I do not at all recommend using the nest thermostat - it has a horrible reputation.
Honeywell thermostats on the other hand are very solid, especially the older ones.

Wifi thermostats do not actually save any more energy than the programmables they usually replace.


2001 install year would make the furnace 21 years old, it needs a visual heat exchanger inspection every year at this point and prefereably also a combustion test with an analyzer. This is for safety.
When was it last serviced?

Your son should budget for replacement just in case, it could go at any time and not be worth repairing if the repair is over $500 or so.

user_12345a said:

The C wire adapter is not needed - get rid of it.

The yellow wire can be connected to C on both ends.

Now, I do not at all recommend using the nest thermostat - it has a horrible reputation.
Honeywell thermostats on the other hand are very solid, especially the older ones.

Wifi thermostats do not actually save any more energy than the programmables they usually replace.


2001 install year would make the furnace 21 years old, it needs a visual heat exchanger inspection every year at this point and prefereably also a combustion test with an analyzer. This is for safety.
When was it last serviced?

Your son should budget for replacement just in case, it could go at any time and not be worth repairing if the repair is over $500 or so.

Click to expand...

Agree on the Replacement in near future.

Probably in next 5 years. I am replacing my current HVAC this spring. All large Components bought, except Plenum, just finishing the other house projects as we bought the place 5 years ago and this Rheem system is being retired..

I doubled checked today I do not see a C block on the furnace. Just Red(R), (W) White, (Y) Yellow, (G) Green.

Unfortunately I did not grab the model of York but each of the Screw Connectors are in close proximity to each other. I thought intially maybe the C Screw Connector was separated and away from the other 4. Unfortunately my son lives 50 miles away and I will not be able to get up there till end of next week to grab the model number..

You can say we kinda of have things in the family. The Mother in Law worked at Armstrong building HVAC Systems for 15 years and my late father in law was a HVAC guy 34 years before he passed. He did a complete inspection of the unit the year he died which would be less than 18 months ago (Covid). And he basically kept things in check here for everyone HVAC-wise

I have done my fair share of trade work my self over the years as my dad was in the trades for 35 years before he passed. I worked my way thru my Bachelors and Masters Degrees doing Trade work on the side of my normal Gig. I have swapped close to a dozen furnaces over the years. Not done much with AC, I always left that to my father in law. I have the tools now but not done much and that may change on this new furnace/Ac Unit I have.

At the time my father in law last checked he said everything looked really good on the unit in question. The Rheem in my current place was another story and has been completely gone thru including all burners etc. The idea was to get us to the point we could get this new system.

I actually have 3 of these York furnaces in the homes I own or part owner (family type thing). All high efficiencys (95-97%) All within 5 years of each other.

The one in question is the middle one in years. The one that is the oldest last March lost its spark igniter. That has been the only thing we have replaced on all three.over the years. Maintenance was typically done by my father in law.till he passed suddently. I am not sure if he picked things up and never told me/us or we have just been lucky as hell as my Rheem initially was a lot to handle.

The Spark Igniter was done by a third party(large firm in the area) and a cleaning\check was done at that time. They said it looked remarkably good but did not like the installation 100% (built on a large platform).

That house used to heat thru ceramic ducts in the floor and it was later changed to be cold air return and new overhead ducts put in. I remember my dad sitting down with the local York Dealer (Family Friend/Work Acquantince) and they worked it out over a BBQ. It was no small task but that furnace and installation plus the tankless water heater dropped that Gas Bill significantly from the old Sears 80% that was in the place. I believe it was a drop of 2/3 of the original amount. When I took possession I gutted the house, reinsulated and drywalled every exterior wall, and insulated the attic fully. Then I added a second floor the fuel still stayed roughly the same but I increased the living space considerably.

The plan is one HVAC System a year. Mine first, The oldest one next, the sons, and then the final one (newest).

Thanks for the help,
Chris

Just to clarify a couple of things...

Standard HVAC systems use 24V AC (not DC), and "C" is the "other wire" that completes an electric circuit.

Basically on the transformer that makes this 24V, it will have 120V hot and neutral feeding the incoming side, and R and C on the outgoing side.

A basic thermostat doesn't need C because it is just a switch and doesn't actually need power to work, or if it does it gets it's power from disposible batteries.

Thermostats that do need power to work either need R and C wires, or they "steel power" from between R and one of the other "open switch" wires that are not being used at the time (which isn't a very reliable way to do it).

So yes, inside of the furnace there will be a C wire, but perhaps it's not labeled. If you can follow the wires inside back to the low voltage side of the transformer, R usually goes directly to one side of it, while C would be the other wire (and is also usually connected to ground).

Hope this helps.

By the way, I also have concerns that 120k btu's does seem to be a pretty huge furnace. Also for the record I second the opinion that nest thermostats don't have a very good reputation for being a good thermostat.

bfrabel,
Thanks for the information!

So C is the common wire.

The Nest learning in my current home made a big difference. Than again it was more than twice this units cost. I would say about a 10 percent savings per year on my Propane usage for the past 3 years. With that said it was done in a mix of repairs to the current furnace so my guess that contributed to the savings as well.

The current project though was free (Rebate) and the old thermostat is 17 years old so I thought it was a good investment not to mention I can monitor the heat there as I am paying for it for my son (In College type of thing) and his room mate.

I just assumed it was 24 Volt DC as its going to a Device that more than likely using DC for most of the other features(Wifi, battery charging, etc). I dabble in electronics as a hobby my DMM would have told me if I got it out in the first place.

From your information and user12345_a it appears that there is more than likely a C wire (Common) somewhere buried in the compartment. The wires do not connect to the Main board like my Rheem (more open clearance and is not tucked in as much as the York). Also the York is in a square layout from what I could see - compartment like - It appeared to be on top of the transformer). I am going to look for the install/owners manuals for the furnace. I know I have them in my file cabinet. The question would be which unit is which house...so I get to review all three (lol)
One thing User12345_a was talking was to use the Y wire and connect to the C once located. That should be easy enough.

You are probably at least the 10th person over the years though that has said this exact same thing on the sizes of the furnace (when I mention them online). On all the locations we own. The one location is basically a cabin that is a glorified one maybe two car garage - From memory that is a 60K BTU or whatever the smaller York Stellar Plus was at that time it could be a 80K.

I am confident the other 2 are both 120Ks. My father always rounded to the higher BTU furnace in BTU calculation whether right or wrong the fuel usage compared to similar houses has never been the issue. I know the cycling process (etc) is always a concern. I know they did the duct study/calculation on each home as they were both large duct changeouts. So My feeling it was probably good. I was in my mid 20's when we did the swaps. The place the furnaces came from was in Toledo since 1895 as a HVAC Supplier in downtown Toledo. Always interesting to watch them make custom Plenums while you waited and had ducts you never will see at a box store. Unfortunately they did not survive past 2009 as their location was revitalized by the city planning commission (Became a ball field and night life area)

With that said all houses (except my current) are within a few miles of Lake Erie and we do get days in -10 degree ranges quiet often a week maybe or so. In fact Wind Chills well below -40 are not atypical. As I age though it appears the weather has gotten warmer. I remember feet of snow. Including the Blizzard of 1978. Today anything over 6 inches is doomsday.

On the flip side, I have been told at my current residence (3800sqft and multiple floors in open country) is way under sized. The closest house to me is a mile away with no trees to speak of except two on the NW side of the house and a dozen orchard trees I planted 2 years ago. The house is decently insulated but the 90K Propane furnace (Aging 90% furnace) to me it is as well under sized but probably more noticeable as the furnace is older. This was also told by the last two inspectors (County and the home inspection group - they actually sent 2 people) that was at the house when we purchased the place. The Home inspector tore the furnace apart in writing in his documentation. The County guy said the way he saw things it would be close and probably ok due to the additional heat source that is in the large living room (13ft 6" X 33ft 3inch room) which is heated by a propane fireplace, also something about Propane in general as a heat source, and the insulation factor would he consider it good or accept it. I should also mention the first floor has high ceilings as well (over 8ft but the second floor is not 8 more like 7 something)

When we got down in the negative tens for 7 days that first year we moved in (prior to my father in law getting involved with it) the home fought to stay at 60 and never stopped. That same year we did loose the main Blower (first - just after that cold spell), igniter (glow plug) about a month later, one vacuum switch (replaced both along with hoses) - constant clicking If I remembered right was heard. It happened over time and my father in law did most of the work but the blower was covered under house warranty. After he went thru the furnace we replaced all the burners quick (big difference). This was after he spent a decent amount of time looking over/cleaning the heat exchanger (camera probe etc). Like I said this is the first furnace to be replaced as its the one I believe is at highest risk of issues (Carbon Monoxide/Failure). Supposedly Rheem in the Original owners manual claims the unit has a Life Time Heat Exchanger Warranty but I know better.

My father in law, before I bought the new furnace did a bunch a calculations about ducts as we are moving the furnace over to the right about 6 ft and we are also adding an additional room (10X14) to the HVAC setup that is on the first floor. Previously the room was not heated as it was a Old Pantry/Freezer Room.

First Time I ever saw Borax mixed with Wood Shavings for wall insulation. Evidently its very common in these old country homes...Evidently they used them with Ice from the Lake and stored meat items. At least that is how it was explained to me by a old timer. It was no fun running electric in that room I tell you that much. It also houses the Convertible Jet pump and Water Filtration and Softener for the well. Now its just a spare guest bedroom.

Thanks everyone for the help I will let you know what I find,
Chris

All,
We got it the other day when I was at my boys.

Basically we found that there was a C wire. It is not as apparent as the other wires. I have included a picture.

After installing it with the Wire and hooking it to the thermostat the N260 error and the no charging notification went away.

I should add its the lower right one (blue).

I will also chime in about the recent weather. We had 4 days in a row (Almost 5 days) where we did not leave the lower single digits and all the nights were in negatives. Also the winds put the wind chill as low as -45 for the worse night the rest were -30 to -20 range. The current furnace never shut off and winds were in the 30mph range. Also the 4 hours where AEP cut the power, brown out scenario (Save electric)/also a repair time, did not help the situation at all.

Thanks everyone for the help,
Chris