[glen4cindy]

We recently moved into a home where many of the outlets are only of the 2 prong variety.

The service panel and service entrance has been upgraded to 200 amps and is all new work. Why they didn't address the rest of the electrical when they remodeled the kitchen and bathrooms and panel is beyond me.

Looking from the basement, it is clear that most if not all of the wiring does not come up from there to the outlets but must pass directly from the panel, thru the walls and then from outlet to outlet.

Many of these will not matter that a ground is not present as the type of devices used will not have a grounded type of plug used.

For the few that do and where possible would it be acceptable to drop down through the wall into the basement with a #2 solid wire, green in color and route back to the service panel and to the ground bus bar and then upgrade the outlet to a 3 wire type grounded outlet? I would do it this way because I cannot locate the path of the original feeder wire to get a new 12/3 all the way back picking up every outlet along the way.

Thanks in advance.

 

[chandler48]

In your situation if having a ground is not mandatory for your purposes, you can install a GFCI receptacle in the first location out of the panel and protect the remaining 3 prong receptacles (using your two wires) from the LOAD side of the GFCI. You must mark all the downline receptacles with the two stickers that come with the GFCI which say "No Equipment Ground" and "GFCI protected". That will give you the convenience of having the 3 pronged receptacles and the protection of a ground fault to protect personnel.

 

[joed]

I would first verify that the cables do not have grounds that are not attached. When ground first came out they often just didn't connect them. They could be wrapped around the cable and under the box clamp.
The easiest place to inspect the cables is where they leave the breaker box.

 

[seharper]

Looking from the basement, it is clear that most if not all of the wiring does not come up from there to the outlets but must pass directly from the panel, thru the walls and then from outlet to outlet.

That's exactly what they did in my house. brought new cables up from the basement. But that was before NEC 2014 landed.

And you're perfectly welcome to do the same and bring a 12/2 w/g cable up from the basement for each outlet. You can splice them together in any junction box which will remain accessible.

However there's an easier way, depending on how much you trust the old wiring.

For the few that do and where possible would it be acceptable to drop down through the wall into the basement with a #2 solid wire, green in color and route back to the service panel and to the ground bus bar and then upgrade the outlet to a 3 wire type grounded outlet? I would do it this way because I cannot locate the path of the original feeder wire to get a new 12/3 all the way back picking up every outlet along the way.

Yes, you certainly can. The google word is Retrofit Ground. This was made explicitly legal in NEC 2014. Not everyone has adopted NEC 2014 but I doubt an AHJ would stand on that.

What's more, you can do it on every outlet if you like.

 

[glen4cindy]

Thanks all. Very good suggestions.

My main concerns are the entertainment center outlets and my computer outlets.

My UPS really squawks without an equipment ground so I have to get some of these replaced.

I've got lots of time right now. I just need to get a spool of wire.

Thanks.

 

[Jim Port]

Adding new circuits with a ground is almost as easy as grounding existing circuits and you get added capacity.

 

[J. V.]

I looked at a house my friend bought. The people that pulled all new "yellow" 12/2 cable with ground, cut off the bare ground wire at each point.
They pulled all new cable and yet cut off the ground at each receptacle and switch. We had to raise up each new box so we could get to the bare ground.
Some really stupid people in this world.

 

[glen4cindy]

I’d like to add a question here for the folks that are more knowledgeable codewise than I am.

Using this retrofit ground method, is it acceptable to mount 2 or 3 junction boxes on the basement ceiling (unfinished), and use those to run single runs back to the panel?

I’d use the boxes to tie two to three grounds from the room above.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wiredindallas]

If you can access the receptacles to run a ground, I would just rewire them. Wire (romex) old enough to not have a ground wire is old enough to need replacing anyway.

 

[AllanJ]

Long before NEC 2014 you could do this, and you can still.

A separate ground wire (equipment grounding conductor) may be run from an outlet to the panel from which the branch circuit for that outlet originates, exactly, approximately, or vaguely following the route of the branch circuit cable or conductors. This EGC may have taps to or daisy chain through additional outlets on the same branch circuit. Should this separate EGC first reach a fat ground wire (grounding electrode conductor) going to a ground rod or other grounding electrode or (new as of 2014) first reach a properly grounded outlet box or similar location it may end and be attached there.

The separate EGC need not be #2 in most cases; it only needs to be the size of the largest circuit wires it picks up, for example #12 for a group of 15 and 20 amp circuits.

 

[seharper]

Yeah Glen4cindy, what you propose is fine. Really the retrofit ground wire only needs to reach the panel the circuit is out of, or a metal conduit that goes there, or another circuit's ground wire that goes there, or the Grounding Electrode System (meaning that heavy ground wire from the panel to water pipe, ground rod, Ufer etc.)

If it uses another circuit's ground wire, the wire must be large enough for the circuit (e.g. a 40A range which needs a #10 ground can use a #10 water heater circuit but cannot use a #12 branch circuit).

So could you lay a ground backbone and hub-and-spoke all the grounds? Yeah, that's fine.

Note that grounds are shareable because (we hope) you won't be having ground faults on 2 circuits at the same time!

 

[glen4cindy]

Thanks all.

Project is underway.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VDVGtTYrBX4MNrA9A

I drilled a pilot hole right in front of the outlet as close to the wall as I could get.
The next hole is probably overkill but I’m not skilled at fishing wires. Plus, this gives me the flexibility to rewire in the future.

I did find another issue when I got to the panel.

My A/C has the ground and neutral tapped to one of the neutral bus bars. I’ll have to move the ground before I button it back up.

 

[Oldmaster]

NEC does require that a seperate equipment grounding conductor must be protected from physical damage by a raceway or cable armor except when installed in hollow spaces in the building and where not subject to physical damage.