[willc86]

Hey guys...Well I am trying to research as much as possible before I start touching these stuff. I really wish I had someone to teach me these things, but was not that fortunate.

Anyhow, to hire an electrician is stupid expensive in Colorado. I mean best quote I got was 150 per outlet...I mean come on.... almost 1000 bucks for this job.


Anyhow, I am wondering the principals. I have a 3 prong outlet by the door and I just need to add an extra outlet in the closet...

So Can I just grab one of the wires and extend it to the outlet...how is this done exactly? So theres a hot wire a negative wire and a positive? 2001 house by the way

(yes I will be reading articles and doing more research but the articles make no sense to me until I under stand the stupid basics)

 

[Daniel Holzman]

I suggest you purchase a basic wiring book, you can get them at any big box store. I have one by Black and Decker, called Basic Wiring, it explains the fundamentals of electric installation and a little bit of electric theory. Of course there are numerous internet articles on the theory of electricity, and You Tube videos on how to install circuits, receptacles, lights etc., but the videos can be difficult to understand without basic electrical theory, which you can get from a basic electrical book. It is difficult, maybe impossible, to get a course on electric theory and practice from a DIY chat forum. Maybe one of your neighbors has experience and can help you work your way up to doing projects, hands on help is always a great thing.

 

[samjg1]

If you're new to electrical work, I would NOT suggest getting information from YouTube. Although there are good videos by people who know what they're doing, there are also way too many hacks on there that don't, and have no idea of or just ignore the electrical code. If you aren't able to distinguish between the two, I'd keep away, and get the information from the aforementioned books first.
Once you have a good grasp of what to do safely and legally, then look at YouTube to see it done in a practical situation.
It's not hard to do the work safely and to code.

 

[Arrow3030]

What's wrong with paying a professional to do his job? Read a book, walk down the electrical section of a hardware store to familiarize yourself with basic material and ask a family or friend who's a "fix-it" for advice.

 

[jreagan]

And much of the work will be extending the wire. There might be several framing members in the way. The shortest path may not be the easiest path.

Plus, if you are extending an existing circuit, you might be required to upgrade to a newer version of the NEC which might include adding AFCI protection to the circuit.

 

[willc86]

And much of the work will be extending the wire. There might be several framing members in the way. The shortest path may not be the easiest path.

Plus, if you are extending an existing circuit, you might be required to upgrade to a newer version of the NEC which might include adding AFCI protection to the circuit.

i mean to just add an outlet to an existing outlet, cant I just piggy back hot, neutral and the ground with an electrical cable? Or how do I know I need a newer version of the NEC and having to add an AFCI

according to state of colorado, doing this is within code - but running high voltage wires behind the wall is not (although they will not find out)

It seems that is the standard way of adding an outlet coming from the panel and/or existing outlet....this is incorrect?

I believe that is how my dad also tried explaining it to me as we was a contractor as well.

So pretty much remove the wires from the outlet
run an electrical cable through the top to the bottom
then piggy back the hot, neutral and ground wires and add them back to the outlet
then add the new wires to the top outlet hot neutral and ground

kind of what this diagram is suggesting

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...lWjnhjvjokVVhHfsHkREn6Ng&ust=1459144919083219

if not - then what is it I have to watch for?

 

[gregzoll]

Sparky's like all other contractors have bills to pay like everyone else. $150 per outlet is pretty cheap these days. If you take it on, you will find that if you do not have the proper tools, you will pay more than that for wiring, permits, tools to get the job done and take longer.

Doing it is fine. It is when you run into problems like having to go through fire blocking, open up ceilings and then having to find another route and maybe nick a wire or hit one with a Flex bit, is when you find that it is cheaper to hire if you have not taken on this task.

Five outlets sound small on paper, but when you have to do it for the first time, it tends to overwhelm you, because you feel that you took more time to do just one.

Even if you get a book like the Black & Decker Complete guide to wiring for home owners, you will find that the drawings are in there for a reason and the examples for blueprints are just that.

 

[willc86]

Sparky's like all other contractors have bills to pay like everyone else. $150 per outlet is pretty cheap these days. If you take it on, you will find that if you do not have the proper tools, you will pay more than that for wiring, permits, tools to get the job done and take longer.

Doing it is fine. It is when you run into problems like having to go through fire blocking, open up ceilings and then having to find another route and maybe nick a wire or hit one with a Flex bit, is when you find that it is cheaper to hire if you have not taken on this task.

Five outlets sound small on paper, but when you have to do it for the first time, it tends to overwhelm you, because you feel that you took more time to do just one.

Even if you get a book like the Black & Decker Complete guide to wiring for home owners, you will find that the drawings are in there for a reason and the examples for blueprints are just that.

I just do not believe spending 1000 to add 5 outlets in a day is justice. I mean thats more than what a doctor gets paid - but i dont want to get into the political side of it. I also believe its good for a man to know these skills which I clearly do not have.

Anyhow, yes for complex jobs I would hire an electrician - but there is no fire block in the way, no studs, no nothing. Just an empty hole that needs a wire to be ran. I believe all of my circuit panels and breakers are fairly new.
(2001 home) also - basement was completely done with new electrical and all that is on to code with the AFCI.

I would really like to learn this on my own - but if I follow this link
https://www.handymanhowto.com/how-to-replace-a-worn-out-electrical-outlet-part-3/

which I believe is a very standard to code build in CO. there is no threat to fire correct? If something break fine...just as long as there is no fire hazard. Its nothing complex its just a small project to start learning but I do need advice and opinion about doing this on my own

so I appreciate all of your input guys! I just bought that book from black and decker - money is not the issue as well - its just a pride thing as well. I feel good about being able to do this on my own

 

[Speedy Petey]

I just do not believe spending 1000 to add 5 outlets in a day is justice. I mean thats more than what a doctor gets paid - but i dont want to get into the political side of it. I also believe its good for a man to know these skills which I clearly do not have.

You said $150 per receptacle. I think you math is a little bit over-dramatic.

I find it SAD that you think this is "stupid expensive", and think that's what an electrician "gets paid". Do you honestly think he takes your check and runs to the bank and cashes it then runs to the bar for some drinks?? Like any other legitimate BUSINESS we have overhead, lots of it. Let me ask you, what do you do for a living?

It is truly insulting when folks insinuate that we pocket every penny of our outrageous fees. If you knew how much we needed to average in a day just to make a reasonable NET take home I guaranty you'd be surprised.

Bottom line, if you have a decent skill set for this type of work, and have a few decent tools, it's not extremely difficult, BUT, it is not ultra simple either. People also downplay the challenges of old-work wiring in a home. It's not nearly as easy as wide open walled new work.

 

[willc86]

You said $150 per receptacle. I think you math is a little bit over-dramatic.

I find it SAD that you think this is "stupid expensive", and think that's what an electrician "gets paid". Do you honestly think he takes your check and runs to the bank and cashes it then runs to the bar for some drinks?? Like any other legitimate BUSINESS we have overhead, lots of it. Let me ask you, what do you do for a living?

It is truly insulting when folks insinuate that we pocket every penny of our outrageous fees. If you knew how much we needed to average in a day just to make a reasonable NET take home I guaranty you'd be surprised.

Bottom line, if you have a decent skill set for this type of work, and have a few decent tools, it's not extremely difficult, BUT, it is not ultra simple either. People also downplay the challenges of old-work wiring in a home. It's not nearly as easy as wide open walled new work.

Umm. I plan to add about 7 - 10 outlets. So, yes; 1000+ seems a bit out of the ordinary. You might be different, but electricians around here work for themselves. I have not tried contacting an actual business since I believe they will be much more expensive than an independent electrician. So, electricians around HERE, yes, they do pocket it and does not go to anyone else. Maybe its worth trying a company? Regardless, I am not speaking for ALL electricians, just the ones around here.

And what I do for a living has nothing to do with my views on this.

Anyhow, any other feedback?

 

[jimn]

Whether the electrician works for a company or by their self there is still a cost of doing business. His truck, storage space, tools, license , education and training , code books, liability insurance, taxes(personal income tax, social security, other state taxes)), health insurance etc. I am computer consultant .

 

[Daniel Holzman]

I have added receptacles, added breakers, extended circuits etc. in several houses I have owned. The learning curve is more difficult than one might imagine by reading a book or watching a video, in particular because all of my work has been in existing houses where the wiring needed to go through walls, from one floor to another, or through the attic.

The work is not necessarily complex, but it does require skill and understanding of the options, which I have learned over the years. As a first time project, this could be a good one to learn on, but getting help from someone who has already done it would be a good start. There are surprising twists to every old house project, studs where you don't expect them, existing wires where you don't plan to see them, other oddities. When I rewired my basement I found a home made gun above the dropped ceiling, along with crude electrical splices not in a box.

So as to the price an electrician would charge, they are free to quote any price they feel is appropriate. This is still a largely capitalist country, so there is no reason to argue that a given price is "too high", and similarly there is no need for a professional electrician to need to justify their rates. When I do my (rare) private sector engineering, I quote a fee, and if the homeowner feels it is too high, they are free to find someone else to do the work. No hard feelings, but no negotiations either.

Installing a new receptacle the first time in an old house may take several hours, between fishing the wire, installing the box, patching the drywall, and making the connections. And if you run into trouble, could be much longer. And of course if you make the connections wrong, there could be a fire hazard. Which is why I suggest getting someone with experience to help out. Good luck with the project.

 

[jlhaslip]

And all you need to be a Carpenter is a hammer, tape and pouch...

 

[jreagan]

Ignoring that your addition might require a code update & AFCIs; learning appropriate tools (and swear words) to fish wires from place to place; my only suggestion is make sure you don't use cheap back-stab receptacles where you strip the wire and just shove it into the hole. Either use the screws on the side or the better receptacles that screw down a small plate on the wire in the hole in the back.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Umm. I plan to add about 7 - 10 outlets. So, yes; 1000+ seems a bit out of the ordinary. You might be different, but electricians around here work for themselves. I have not tried contacting an actual business since I believe they will be much more expensive than an independent electrician. So, electricians around HERE, yes, they do pocket it and does not go to anyone else. Maybe its worth trying a company? Regardless, I am not speaking for ALL electricians, just the ones around here.

Well, I am an independent electrician that works for myself, and I am a real legitimate company, with real legitimate costs and overhead. Are you saying all the electricians you know are all side-work part timers?

Ever bring your car to a dealer for service? Ever notice what they charge for an hours labor? And you are going to them. We make house calls for less. Oh, but we're over priced.

Oh, and from your own post: "I just do not believe spending 1000 to add 5 outlets in a day is justice."

And what I do for a living has nothing to do with my views on this.

It certainly does. We hear it all the time, hypocritical folks complain about how "over priced" legitimate contractors are, yet they do things for a living that are just costly and pricey. It's real easy to say "it doesn't matter what I do" when it hides such hypocrisy.

Anyhow, any other feedback?

Yeah, a $grand for a day for two men adding 10 new receptacles sounds like a pretty good price.

 

[Tom738]

... learning appropriate tools (and swear words) to fish wires from place to place ...

I want to learn the swear words that fish wires!! :smile:

 

[MrElectricianTV]

Well, I am an independent electrician that works for myself, and I am a real legitimate company, with real legitimate costs and overhead. Are you saying all the electricians you know are all side-work part timers?

Ever bring your car to a dealer for service? Ever notice what they charge for an hours labor? And you are going to them. We make house calls for less. Oh, but we're over priced.

Oh, and from your own post: "I just do not believe spending 1000 to add 5 outlets in a day is justice."




It certainly does. We hear it all the time, hypocritical folks complain about how "over priced" legitimate contractors are, yet they do things for a living that are just costly and pricey. It's real easy to say "it doesn't matter what I do" when it hides such hypocrisy.



Yeah, a $grand for a day for two men adding 10 new receptacles sounds like a pretty good price.

On the plus side Speedy, I have found that people who do their own wiring are good for my business. All of those wiring mistakes, short cuts, loose connections, lack of permits and inspections, and code violations come to a head at some point. I have several real estate agents who throw me work. Much of that is correcting wiring mistakes made by the sellers that showed up in a home inspection report.

 

[jbfan]

i mean to just add an outlet to an existing outlet, cant I just piggy back hot, neutral and the ground with an electrical cable? Or how do I know I need a newer version of the NEC and having to add an AFCI

according to state of colorado, doing this is within code - but running high voltage wires behind the wall is not (although they will not find out)

It seems that is the standard way of adding an outlet coming from the panel and/or existing outlet....this is incorrect?

I believe that is how my dad also tried explaining it to me as we was a contractor as well.

So pretty much remove the wires from the outlet
run an electrical cable through the top to the bottom
then piggy back the hot, neutral and ground wires and add them back to the outlet
then add the new wires to the top outlet hot neutral and ground

kind of what this diagram is suggesting

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...lWjnhjvjokVVhHfsHkREn6Ng&ust=1459144919083219

if not - then what is it I have to watch for?

So, this means no permit being pulled?

What do you mean no high voltage wires behind the walls?

What do you consider high voltage

 

[samjg1]

willc86:

The pro's on this site come here to give advice to DIY'ers who might otherwise get themselves into trouble if they did it wrong.
That being said, when you start criticizing them for the price they charge to make a living, you're hitting a sore spot, and they will justifiably take offense. As was mentioned, there is overhead that must be paid by them.
You are free to get quotes from as many licensed, insured electricians as you wish, and decide from there.

 

[gregzoll]

Yeah, a $grand for a day for two men adding 10 new receptacles sounds like a pretty good price.

A grand for two guys or one guy and one gal, two gals is pretty cheap these days for anything dealing with any kind of wiring, plumbing.

My wife wants to swap out our toilet for a chair height, elongated, so that it is easier on me, so that my legs do not fall asleep, because of the back problems.

She was like "Oh, Lowe's has an American Standard for $240, plus $50 rebates. You can still do it can't you?" Yeah, I will tell my PT and my back dr, when I end up at the ER, who caused it.

I just ended up faxing the quote request to a local company that has been a small family business for over 60 years in our area, that I just started using for HVAC, they also do plumbing.

Guess who Greg is having to do the work, while the wife is at work. Us guys are not dummies. Of course I will spend a little bit more on a Toto, then a American Standard from the Big Box.