[nytimes770]

This is in a 5 yr old house...the water heater is sitting in the garage with a recirculating pump attached as you can see in the picture.

A few months ago i noticed the pump banging really out at times, so loud that i feared the water heater would burst or something. so i traced it back to a basic timer that was plugged into the wall. i unplugged it and do not have the pump plugged in.

The water in the rest of the house gets hot water just fine..i actually have a different kind of recirculating pump upstairs in the bathrooms. Even on the first floor i get hot water fine in the bathroom but not in the kitchen sink.

Every time we need hot water i walk out to the garage and plug the pump in and almost instantly we have hot water. when unplugged, the water can get lukewarm at best before it gets lukecold.

So my question is this - why is there no hot water at the kitchen sink? Could it be that the insulated pipe in the picture going into the wall actually could be feeding hot water to the sink, and the hot water flow is actually getting obstructed by the pump not being on? Or does the water heater send all hot water up into the ceiling and from there it's distributed to different places including the kitchen sink?

Is there maintenance i can do to get the banging to stop?

How do i know the device is defective?

If it is, what options do i have other than replacing the pump?

I was thinking i can remove the pump and connect the two pipe pieces together.

i had a big plumbing company come by who said they would put a ball valve above and below the pump, and for us to keep both off. they thought that would allow hot water at the sink. Is this correct? I guess if my guess that the insulated pipe going into the wall is actually how the kitchen sink gets hot water, this would not work. i would get no hot water at all. not even lukewarm water.

 

[jmon]

No, that is the pressure relief valve drain in case the pressure gets too high so wh won't blow up.. It may drain outside somewhere.

 

[jmon]

Your hot and cold lines are on top of the wh.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't know much about recirculating systems, but the indicated line is coming off the T&P (safety) valve. I'm guessing it goes outside.

 

[Ghostmaker]

Rebuild the pump. Get the make and model number off the pump and get the parts.

 

[jmon]

Sorry, looked at your pic again, the indicated arrow looked like it was pointing at the tpr valve line, but as you explain it's the insulated pipe coming off the recir pump you are wondering about. Yes I agree, that is probably going to your kitchen sink.

Yes, they can go bad and need replacing/rebuilding and can cause your symptoms. Usually they are easily replaced/swapped out as there are unions on one or both ends of it. Can't tell from pic as it is all covered with insulation.

Is there an xpansion tank on the incoming cold water line somewhere?? I don't see one in the pic??

 

[hkstroud]

i had a big plumbing company come by who said they would put a ball valve above and below the pump, and for us to keep both off. they thought that would allow hot water at the sink. Is this correct?

No. Never let that person back in your house, much less touch your plumbing.

The water in the rest of the house gets hot water just fine..i actually have a different kind of recirculating pump upstairs in the bathrooms.

That would be unusual but I'll take your word for it. It would also explain why you have hot water at the upstairs of the house.

I guess if my guess that the insulated pipe going into the wall is actually how the kitchen sink gets hot water

It is more likely that that pipe is the cold water coming into your house for the water heater. The other insulated pipe is the hot water return from the kitchen area. From here I can't be sure which is which but it really doesn't matter. One is the cold water input to the water heater and the other is the hot water return.


There appears to be a check valve on the cold water input below the tee where the two pipe connect. That check valve should be on the cold water input line above the tee. Where it is now (assuming what I see is a check valve) it prevents hot water in the water heater from going back into the cold water system. It does not prevent hot water from the hot water return pipes from going back into the cold water system.

There should be a check valve on the cold water input line above the tee to prevent any hot water going in to the cold water system. There should be a check valve on the hot water return line to prevent any cold water coming into the water heater going into the hot water return line. The lack of that check valve is the reason you first get luke warm water (water that is in the hot water pipes) and then luke cold water (water coming into the hot water return line to the kitchen) from the cold water input pipe to the water heater.
The banging noise is from a defective pump. When it is running the pump keeps the water circulating properly (for the most part). The pump pulls water from the hot water return lines and pumps it into the water heater through the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. The drain valve is now a combination drain valve and an input valve for the recirculated hot water.


The solution is to replace the defective pump and to relocate the check valves to their proper places so you stop mixing water in the hot and cold water systems, which is costing you money.


The pumps are not that expensive and making the necessary changes is not that difficult if you can solder copper pipe.
These changes will probably require the addition of an expansion tank on the cold water input line after the check valve to prevent the T&P from opening when a large volume of water is being heated. Something that it is probably doing now but you just don't know it.

 

[TheEplumber]

Rebuild the pump. Get the make and model number off the pump and get the parts.

Do what he said. The type of pump you have looks like the type that has a replaceable impeller housing- much like changing a light bulb. You don't need to remove the pump. With the make and model, you should be able to download the manual from their website for repairing it

Also, check the orientation of the 2 check valves that are visible in the picture. Look for flow arrows on the valve and confirm the they are pointing toward the tank. There should be a 3rd one on the the CW line closest to the front of the tank

 

[nytimes770]

Sorry, looked at your pic again, the indicated arrow looked like it was pointing at the tpr valve line, but as you explain it's the insulated pipe coming off the recir pump you are wondering about. Yes I agree, that is probably going to your kitchen sink.

Yes, they can go bad and need replacing/rebuilding and can cause your symptoms. Usually they are easily replaced/swapped out as there are unions on one or both ends of it. Can't tell from pic as it is all covered with insulation.

Is there an xpansion tank on the incoming cold water line somewhere?? I don't see one in the pic??

yes, there's an expansion tank at the top. i didn't include it in the picture.

 

[nytimes770]

No. Never let that person back in your house, much less touch your plumbing.


That would be unusual but I'll take your word for it. It would also explain why you have hot water at the upstairs of the house.


It is more likely that that pipe is the cold water coming into your house for the water heater. The other insulated pipe is the hot water return from the kitchen area. From here I can't be sure which is which but it really doesn't matter. One is the cold water input to the water heater and the other is the hot water return.


There appears to be a check valve on the cold water input below the tee where the two pipe connect. That check valve should be on the cold water input line above the tee. Where it is now (assuming what I see is a check valve) it prevents hot water in the water heater from going back into the cold water system. It does not prevent hot water from the hot water return pipes from going back into the cold water system.

There should be a check valve on the cold water input line above the tee to prevent any hot water going in to the cold water system. There should be a check valve on the hot water return line to prevent any cold water coming into the water heater going into the hot water return line. The lack of that check valve is the reason you first get luke warm water (water that is in the hot water pipes) and then luke cold water (water coming into the hot water return line to the kitchen) from the cold water input pipe to the water heater.
The banging noise is from a defective pump. When it is running the pump keeps the water circulating properly (for the most part). The pump pulls water from the hot water return lines and pumps it into the water heater through the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. The drain valve is now a combination drain valve and an input valve for the recirculated hot water.


The solution is to replace the defective pump and to relocate the check valves to their proper places so you stop mixing water in the hot and cold water systems, which is costing you money.


The pumps are not that expensive and making the necessary changes is not that difficult if you can solder copper pipe.
These changes will probably require the addition of an expansion tank on the cold water input line after the check valve to prevent the T&P from opening when a large volume of water is being heated. Something that it is probably doing now but you just don't know it.

i think this part goes for around $300. that's rather steep. i actually wouldn't mind getting rid of it and connecting the two pipe pieces together. is there a good chance this will allow hot water to flow through?

maybe i'll look into rebuilding it as others have stated.

 

[nytimes770]

I was able to find the manual for this and got a # to tech support.

The manual doesn't say too much but says something about occasional noise being normal but it hasn't been occasional for me. i tried following the instructions to get the air out of the pump...but still getting some excessive noise, although it may not be as bad as before. maybe i keep trying before i decide to do something significant.

 

[nytimes770]

Just to end my story - i talked to tech support who seemed rather knowledgeable. They diagnosis based on my description of the problem was that one of the parts needed replacing. the part was $100. I replaced it myself and voila it works without excessive noise. When i compared the old part to the new part i didn't notice the old part to be that deteriorated.

But still i am perplexed by how were not getting hot water at all when the pump was off.

Now when the pump is off i do get warmer water than before....what could be the reason? Could it be the fact that it's summer time now?

 

[dj3]

Are your copper pipes (in and out the WH) 1/2"?
If yes, they should be 3/4".